BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2019-9th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016

I don't think the above poster was being critical of any family.

Surely it's obvious why anyone might think the (admirable) decision to attend a military academy and make a real commitment to put your life at risk serving your country for years afterwards would call for more maturity than whether to early commit to Michigan or UNC, for example (one might rationally choose the latter based on the boy-girl ratio and weather).

I think one could make an argument that the NCAA should restrict ER just for the sake of the academies.

We wouldn't have these discussions if early recruiting wasn't in the picture. Summer of their sohpmore year going into junior year is reasonable. Stop blaming the parents. It's the club teams and the division 1 lax coaches feeding the machine.

Yep your 100% right.

As a 9th grader just pray the coach will be there in 5 years ..only top 5 or 6 most likely will ..can't say in 8th grade you are going because of the school and the academics they are offering in your sons major..so you will most likely be scrambling for another college in 2-3 years ..I see now some people say they are commiting to the process verbally . Is that the new way of putting it or is it all window dressing in case the kid doesn't have the grades or the school or he backs out???

We wouldn't have these discussions if early recruiting wasn't in the picture. Summer of their sohpmore year going into junior year is reasonable. Stop blaming the parents. It's the club teams and the division 1 lax coaches feeding the machine.

As a parent and NOT a club/college coach, i can tell you from an fairly unbiased perspective that blaming only the coaches is completely untrue. Many a college coach has had 8th grade kids and their parents show up in the lax office during the school year (i.e. before they are even into the summer before frosh yr) asking to talk to the coach, saying they want to consider committing to XXXX college.

At one of the top D3 programs (top both athletically and academically), last fall a group of 4 8th grade kids and their parents walked into the head coach's office asking about recruiting. Coach said it was all he could do to not tell the parents they were frikkin crazy, but instead nicely told them they didnt really start to evaluate kids until summer before Jr Yr. This was driven 100% by parents, as this school never has any commits until rising Jr summer, and any knowledgeable club coach would know that was the case.

While it is true that the root of much of the ER insanity is the coaches being willing to even consider rising Frosh (even if they are 15-16 yo), to not put some of the blame on the parents is being naive. Not that, given the recruiting landscape right now, the parents arent making rational decisions to pursue the gold ring as a Frosh.........if your kid is a stud (or a summer birthday holdback, and then also reclassed when he transferred to brunswick/Choate/ St. XXXXX), is 5'11+ in 8th grade, can shoot on the run, and has pretty good grades, but not good enough to get into a UMich/UVa/ND/JHU on grades alone, then maybe its not crazy. Why not spend 8 weekends during the summer-before and fall-of his Frosh yr to see if you can get him a free, semi-binding option to attend a great school like UMich/UVa/ND/JHU (that he probably wouldn't ever get to sniff at otherwise) simply because he can beat a bunch of year-younger middies off a split dodge........As a parent of a HS Sr (non athlete) who has a 3.8 and 32 ACT but is still probably not getting an acceptance from a UMich/UVa/ND/JHU, having a semi-binding option on one of them maybe isnt the worse thing in the world.

Now, the real head scratchers are the early commits to [insert second-tier D1 school of your choice that any student with a 3.0 and 26 ACT can get in to]. I guess if your son's goal in life is to be a D1 lax player, then knock yourself out.....I just hope its not actually just the parent's goal to be able to claim their son is committed to d1, otherwise its going to be a long 4 years for him in [insert crappy small city name here], and a tough few years living at home after college while in the Enterprise training program.

Crazy parents running around to schools trying to meet with the coach is not the same thing as being recruited. Sending out countless emails to college coaches is not being recruited.
In this day and age their are tournaments that put hundreds of players in front of the college coaches. This past summer and fall just about every Head Coach from all of the top teams in the country were on the sideline watching the top 2019 club teams play.

The coaches watch and then they "recruit" who they like. You don't just call up Hopkins or Duke and say that you want to commit. The Coaches watch the player multiple times then they reach out to see if there is any interest from the player. What 14 year old and their parents will not explore Virginia, Cornell, Duke, Penn, Hopkins etc...

There may be crazy parents and Club and HS coaches might try to push a kid but at the end of the day the college coaches are in charge. They watch the games and they recruit the kids. They ask them to visit campus and they do their best to try and get to know the player and the family. If they think the kid will fit their program they make an offer.

I dont disagree with anything you say above. But its a vicious circle. Do you really think Dom was truly happy about taking that first commitment from the Canadian this past July? Go look at his face in the photo posted to twitter. I'm sure they saw him play enough to know he was legit, but when he (or his parents) told Dom "I want to commit now.....if you aren't interested we understand, but my next stop is off Charles St, and I know DP will give me a verbal". So Dom, not wanting to miss out on the next Brandon Benn, says ok sure, we want you. And then the floodgates opened.

Or how about one of the other big-time commits that "everybody wants". A kid who is completely legit, and could truly play anywhere he wants (and thats been clear since he was in 6th grade). He could show up three years from now at ANY of the ACC schools and they would take him in a heartbeat. But instead he or his parents decide that its a better idea for him to make his decision today, three months into HS, based on him thinking Durham is a better place to spend 4 years than in C'ville/So Bend/Chap Hill/Balt (or vice versa). I guess his commitment is not binding, so he can always change later (decides he does like the snow, or maybe he realizes his grades are enough to go to Princ/Harvard?)

At the end of the day, there is a lot of culpability across all parties in the process. Without the coaches supporting it (even if reluctantly) you are right, it wouldnt exist. And probably some of the parents ARE acting rationally by seeing an opportunity for their 16 yo 9th grader to grab a spot at a school where, even if he never touches the field, he will get a great education and have an enjoyable time. I cant say i blame an early developing D-pole, who at 5'11 in 9th grade is already taller than his Dad, for taking that offer from UNC. Because in a worst case scenario he gets a great education from a school with hot chicks, no snow, and that is virtually impossible to get into from out of state.

But an early commit by a good student from NJ/LI/CT/MD to OSU [or any other school that is a solid university but is not hard to get into even as a non-athlete] simply because they have a kick [lacrosse] weight room and a nice athlete dining hall??....can we really say that is a parent being rational, and not at least partially contributing to the problem???

As a parent and NOT a club/college coach, i can tell you from an fairly unbiased perspective that blaming only the coaches is completely untrue. Many a college coach has had 8th grade kids and their parents show up in the lax office during the school year (i.e. before they are even into the summer before frosh yr) asking to talk to the coach, saying they want to consider committing to XXXX college.

At one of the top D3 programs (top both athletically and academically), last fall a group of 4 8th grade kids and their parents walked into the head coach's office asking about recruiting. Coach said it was all he could do to not tell the parents they were frikkin crazy, but instead nicely told them they didnt really start to evaluate kids until summer before Jr Yr. This was driven 100% by parents, as this school never has any commits until rising Jr summer, and any knowledgeable club coach would know that was the case.

While it is true that the root of much of the ER insanity is the coaches being willing to even consider rising Frosh (even if they are 15-16 yo), to not put some of the blame on the parents is being naive. Not that, given the recruiting landscape right now, the parents arent making rational decisions to pursue the gold ring as a Frosh.........if your kid is a stud (or a summer birthday holdback, and then also reclassed when he transferred to brunswick/Choate/ St. XXXXX), is 5'11+ in 8th grade, can shoot on the run, and has pretty good grades, but not good enough to get into a UMich/UVa/ND/JHU on grades alone, then maybe its not crazy. Why not spend 8 weekends during the summer-before and fall-of his Frosh yr to see if you can get him a free, semi-binding option to attend a great school like UMich/UVa/ND/JHU (that he probably wouldn't ever get to sniff at otherwise) simply because he can beat a bunch of year-younger middies off a split dodge........As a parent of a HS Sr (non athlete) who has a 3.8 and 32 ACT but is still probably not getting an acceptance from a UMich/UVa/ND/JHU, having a semi-binding option on one of them maybe isnt the worse thing in the world.

Now, the real head scratchers are the early commits to [insert second-tier D1 school of your choice that any student with a 3.0 and 26 ACT can get in to]. I guess if your son's goal in life is to be a D1 lax player, then knock yourself out.....I just hope its not actually just the parent's goal to be able to claim their son is committed to d1, otherwise its going to be a long 4 years for him in [insert crappy small city name here], and a tough few years living at home after college while in the Enterprise training program.

I dont disagree with your opinions, however dont be so fast to judge kids and parents for when and where they decide to commit. Every kid is different and every case is different. Not every kid is going to play at an Ivy/ACC/Patriot/Big10, some kids are talented enough but dont have the grades, some kids have the grades but arent talented enough. My son committed to one of those 2nd tier programs and I can say without any trepidation that it was a great decision because it was absolutely the right FIT for HIM. The coaching staff is awesome, the school has his major and does a good job getting kids jobs with internship opportunities, alumni network, etc and he has a real opportunity to play D1 lacrosse at a high level for four years. The whole point of all of this is get your child into a situation where he can be successful and have a great college experience and play the game he loves and if you accomplish that, I say good for you and best of luck to your son.

Can people stop referring to verbal commitments as "semi-binding". This is incorrect and fuels some peoples perception that once a kid verbals he is all set.

The verbal commitments being publicized online require interest from the school and from the player, and there is discussion of possible athletic scholarship but at the end of the day it is nothing more than a handshake and a "gentlemen's agreement".

A players NLI is binding, before that is signed there is no binding commitment between the school and the player. Either can back out at any time.

Has anyone ever thought of a double hold back to increase their child's dominance over everyone else?

Sounds like your son is in the right place. I am in no way criticizing any one because they dont go to a ACC/Ivy/Pat/etc program. My question is, did he/you make the decision to go to his collge when he was a Freshman in HS, or later.....ike maybe after having 2 years or more of HS under his belt so that he had a better idea of where he thinks he fits in, academically, socially, and athletically?

Obviously you are either being sarcastic or havnt been on the latest trail of prospect camps and recruiting events.

They are out there. As there hadn't been that many 2 years ago, the parents 2 years ago would a bit freer in saying how old the player was, I have noticed these days the parents aren't as free to tell you how old the child is.

There is a 2018 kid going to an ACC school that was a kindergarten holdback, reclassed and is doing a PG year. This is not parent paranoia this is a fact, it goes on and the college coaches encourage it.

There is a 2018 kid going to an ACC school that was a kindergarten holdback, reclassed and is doing a PG year. This is not parent paranoia this is a fact, it goes on and the college coaches encourage it.

Once he gets to college he'll red shirt. By the time he graduates he'll be 30 years old.

My 2019 "true" freshman has received serious interest from 3 schools. He was identified as a prospect this Fall, we visited all three schools and one of the three have made an offer. We have decided NOT to move forward with any of the schools because my son has no idea what he wants to major in, what career he wants to pursue let alone, what school he wants to attend. He is 14 years old and I won't pressure him or make a decision for him. Its lacrosse, the scholarships are a small % of the overall cost. There is no need to rush a decision in my opinion.

Just one Dad not drinking the Kool Aid. Maybe I'm wrong, we'll see.

Stop your nonsense, if you went to prospect camps and took the time to visit 3 schools like you say why wouldn't you seriously look into offers. First off most schools wouldn't want him to declare a major at least until the middle of his sophomore year or junior year. And 25% on a $60K school still adds up over 4 years if he's a stud like you say 50% really adds up. There has been a handful or less of LI kids who have committed and I"m pretty sure your kid isn't that caliber of a player.

He committed this fall and he is a sophomore. He was a 2017 and reclassed, (he just turned 16 last week) and is now at a prep school. As of now he is really happy with his decision but as you know that can and may change and thats ok too. His high school coach and club coach endorsed his decision and encouraged it. The school made a significant financial offer to him as well which obviously was also a big factor. All in all it was a great experience and I am excited for him moving forward.

I never said he was a stud, nor did I infer he was offered a 25% scholarship. We explored the process and made a decision to wait. What the [lacrosse] is wrong with some of the morons on this board?

I never said he was a stud, nor did I infer he was offered a 25% scholarship. We explored the process and made a decision to wait.

Hey easy now.........we'll have none of that common sense espoused on this board. How are we going to keep driving up the cost of club ball by 20% per year if the parents dont drink the Koolaide that our sons are failures if they havent committed before the start of soph year?

Nov one cares after your kid is out of college. These club teams are about money. Go for the grades not ground balls. Do you know how many great lax players tend bars..... To many.

Nov one cares after your kid is out of college. These club teams are about money. Go for the grades not ground balls. Do you know how many great lax players tend bars..... To many.

Stop your nonsense, if you went to prospect camps and took the time to visit 3 schools like you say why wouldn't you seriously look into offers. First off most schools wouldn't want him to declare a major at least until the middle of his sophomore year or junior year. And 25% on a $60K school still adds up over 4 years if he's a stud like you say 50% really adds up. There has been a handful or less of LI kids who have committed and I"m pretty sure your kid isn't that caliber of a player.

I think most people understand exactly what a "verbal commitment" is. I would bet that just about every player and parent of a player who is being offered a spot and or scholarship as a 9th grader completely understands the agreement.
I think the only people who get worked up about early recruiting and verbal commitments are the parents of players who are not being recruited and offered spots. I have not gone back and read all of the posts on this thread but I have never heard of anyone refer to a verbal as "semi-binding".

I think most people understand exactly what a "verbal commitment" is. I would bet that just about every player and parent of a player who is being offered a spot and or scholarship as a 9th grader completely understands the agreement.
I think the only people who get worked up about early recruiting and verbal commitments are the parents of players who are not being recruited and offered spots. I have not gone back and read all of the posts on this thread but I have never heard of anyone refer to a verbal as "semi-binding".

As a parent and NOT a club/college coach, i can tell you from an fairly unbiased perspective that blaming only the coaches is completely untrue. Many a college coach has had 8th grade kids and their parents show up in the lax office during the school year (i.e. before they are even into the summer before frosh yr) asking to talk to the coach, saying they want to consider committing to XXXX college.

At one of the top D3 programs (top both athletically and academically), last fall a group of 4 8th grade kids and their parents walked into the head coach's office asking about recruiting. Coach said it was all he could do to not tell the parents they were frikkin crazy, but instead nicely told them they didnt really start to evaluate kids until summer before Jr Yr. This was driven 100% by parents, as this school never has any commits until rising Jr summer, and any knowledgeable club coach would know that was the case.

While it is true that the root of much of the ER insanity is the coaches being willing to even consider rising Frosh (even if they are 15-16 yo), to not put some of the blame on the parents is being naive. Not that, given the recruiting landscape right now, the parents arent making rational decisions to pursue the gold ring as a Frosh.........if your kid is a stud (or a summer birthday holdback, and then also reclassed when he transferred to brunswick/Choate/ St. XXXXX), is 5'11+ in 8th grade, can shoot on the run, and has pretty good grades, but not good enough to get into a UMich/UVa/ND/JHU on grades alone, then maybe its not crazy. Why not spend 8 weekends during the summer-before and fall-of his Frosh yr to see if you can get him a free, semi-binding option to attend a great school like UMich/UVa/ND/JHU (that he probably wouldn't ever get to sniff at otherwise) simply because he can beat a bunch of year-younger middies off a split dodge........As a parent of a HS Sr (non athlete) who has a 3.8 and 32 ACT but is still probably not getting an acceptance from a UMich/UVa/ND/JHU, having a semi-binding option on one of them maybe isnt the worse thing in the world.

Now, the real head scratchers are the early commits to [insert second-tier D1 school of your choice that any student with a 3.0 and 26 ACT can get in to]. I guess if your son's goal in life is to be a D1 lax player, then knock yourself out.....I just hope its not actually just the parent's goal to be able to claim their son is committed to d1, otherwise its going to be a long 4 years for him in [insert crappy small city name here], and a tough few years living at home after college while in the Enterprise training program.

100% correct