BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) High School Lax

On the recruiting front here is my perspective. For the record, I have a son playing in high school, coach a varsity team and a travel team. The two questions I have are these. How good is your son? Objectively, how good? Because the truth is, if he is that good he will be recruited by top schools regardless of his travel team. He will be known through his high school, his stats, his reputation. It just happens to be that many kids in this category also happen to play on travel teams. So of course the travel teams want and take credit, as listed on their website (as a selling point) of where all their players are committed to. All of the early commits contacted the Dukes and Johns Hopkins and UVAs. Thats the only way it can work under NCAA guidelines. So don't think these coaches aren't looking at last name when deciding on an early commit. Either its a coach's son or older brothers played D-1 lacrosse. Then there is the height, weight and athleticism. My second question, is your son's high school in the upper tier, middle tier or lower tier? If it's the lower tier, you may need a travel team for exposure and potentially have the travel coach be the person you have help you with recruiting. If its an upper tier program and your HS coach is well respected, I would go that route. In some instances the travel team is a necessary evil, but when in doubt, I would defer to the HS coach. And keep in mind one thing Seth Tierney and John Danowski preach all the time. If your son is a true D-1 player we will find him. And one last thing, I know there will be plenty of comments about how their son was the exception to all of the above. I get it. But just be mindful of the fact that for the most part, this travel team hysteria is a total money grab. I know. I get paid very well.

On the recruiting front here is my perspective. For the record, I have a son playing in high school, coach a varsity team and a travel team. The two questions I have are these. How good is your son? Objectively, how good? Because the truth is, if he is that good he will be recruited by top schools regardless of his travel team. He will be known through his high school, his stats, his reputation. It just happens to be that many kids in this category also happen to play on travel teams. So of course the travel teams want and take credit, as listed on their website (as a selling point) of where all their players are committed to. All of the early commits contacted the Dukes and Johns Hopkins and UVAs. Thats the only way it can work under NCAA guidelines. So don't think these coaches aren't looking at last name when deciding on an early commit. Either its a coach's son or older brothers played D-1 lacrosse. Then there is the height, weight and athleticism. My second question, is your son's high school in the upper tier, middle tier or lower tier? If it's the lower tier, you may need a travel team for exposure and potentially have the travel coach be the person you have help you with recruiting. If its an upper tier program and your HS coach is well respected, I would go that route. In some instances the travel team is a necessary evil, but when in doubt, I would defer to the HS coach. And keep in mind one thing Seth Tierney and John Danowski preach all the time. If your son is a true D-1 player we will find him. And one last thing, I know there will be plenty of comments about how their son was the exception to all of the above. I get it. But just be mindful of the fact that for the most part, this travel team hysteria is a total money grab. I know. I get paid very well.

On the recruiting front here is my perspective. For the record, I have a son playing in high school, coach a varsity team and a travel team. The two questions I have are these. How good is your son? Objectively, how good? Because the truth is, if he is that good he will be recruited by top schools regardless of his travel team. He will be known through his high school, his stats, his reputation. It just happens to be that many kids in this category also happen to play on travel teams. So of course the travel teams want and take credit, as listed on their website (as a selling point) of where all their players are committed to. All of the early commits contacted the Dukes and Johns Hopkins and UVAs. Thats the only way it can work under NCAA guidelines. So don't think these coaches aren't looking at last name when deciding on an early commit. Either its a coach's son or older brothers played D-1 lacrosse. Then there is the height, weight and athleticism. My second question, is your son's high school in the upper tier, middle tier or lower tier? If it's the lower tier, you may need a travel team for exposure and potentially have the travel coach be the person you have help you with recruiting. If its an upper tier program and your HS coach is well respected, I would go that route. In some instances the travel team is a necessary evil, but when in doubt, I would defer to the HS coach. And keep in mind one thing Seth Tierney and John Danowski preach all the time. If your son is a true D-1 player we will find him. And one last thing, I know there will be plenty of comments about how their son was the exception to all of the above. I get it. But just be mindful of the fact that for the most part, this travel team hysteria is a total money grab. I know. I get paid very well.

That whole "they will find him thing" is such poor advise, you should really know better if you are who you purport to be. The amount of talent out there has now reached an astronomical level. Granted, if you are a top 50 kid in any given class, yes, maybe they will find you. However, for the average D1 recruit it is without question a marketing and sales job. If your son is not at key events, and tournaments playing at the highest level possible, he will not get seen. It takes money, time and effort from the family. Again, after the top 50 recruits there are about 700 D1 spot left for everyone else every year. With where the talent level is from across the country, there are easily 3,500 kids that could take one of those spots. With that said, it takes a concerted effort to garner one of those spots.

I have a question maybe someone can answer. I have a sophomore who will play J.V. again this spring for a top public program. He will not be playing club this year and will just play with H.S. summer team and do prospect days/showcases. As far as recruiting goes, should he list the varsity coach or J.V. coach as a contact ?

You think you as a parent are going to do a sales and marketing job on a college coach? The point above was about travel teams. You can get on the radar at showcases and prospect camps without spending all of that $$ on the coaches and uniforms and helmets and gloves. Because unless you are the turtles or crush or whoever the elite teams are anymore, these coaches could care less about your travel team. Know how many college coaches were at the Yale Fall Classic this weekend? I'd say none, unless of course they were disguised as parents on the sidelines. You can do all the sales and marketing you want, when push comes to shove, they are going to want to get some input from the HS coach. Know where the most college coaches were? The UA tryouts. And you didn't need a travel team to be there. I'm sick of these travel teams selling a dream to parents. The kids on their top teams are getting recruited anyway. So pathetic to travel to UMASS or Delaware or PA or Maryland and see one coach sitting in a chair on the sidelines, from some school we've never heard of. The madness has to stop.

I have a question maybe someone can answer. I have a sophomore who will play J.V. again this spring for a top public program. He will not be playing club this year and will just play with H.S. summer team and do prospect days/showcases. As far as recruiting goes, should he list the varsity coach or J.V. coach as a contact ?

You think you as a parent are going to do a sales and marketing job on a college coach? The point above was about travel teams. You can get on the radar at showcases and prospect camps without spending all of that $$ on the coaches and uniforms and helmets and gloves. Because unless you are the turtles or crush or whoever the elite teams are anymore, these coaches could care less about your travel team. Know how many college coaches were at the Yale Fall Classic this weekend? I'd say none, unless of course they were disguised as parents on the sidelines. You can do all the sales and marketing you want, when push comes to shove, they are going to want to get some input from the HS coach. Know where the most college coaches were? The UA tryouts. And you didn't need a travel team to be there. I'm sick of these travel teams selling a dream to parents. The kids on their top teams are getting recruited anyway. So pathetic to travel to UMASS or Delaware or PA or Maryland and see one coach sitting in a chair on the sidelines, from some school we've never heard of. The madness has to stop.

My only beef with club is it has turned HS teams inside out. Every other HS team accepts that a few will play in college but the entire roster is accepted regardless if they are playing travel or AAU somewhere. In lacrosse if you don't play club you are shunned while playing HS. Congratulations to all club players on their success and journey but if my kid is the starting point guard or quarterback they have a little athletic ability now pass them the lacrosse ball. And its worse with the girls!

Where should a kid play? Only PAL, only for their JHS, only their HS team? Only in the spring? Then go to a prospect camp?

I don't think that you have any Idea of what is going on in the world of lacrosse.

Why are you so bitter about the club teams? If there was not a market for them they would not exist. Nobody tries to force kids to play for a club team.

The class of 2018 has about 300 kids committed to play D1 lacrosse just about all of them play for club teams many of them have not played a varsity game. They play for top club teams and they compete against each other at the top tournaments. College coaches flock to the tournaments that they play in. Once they are committed their future college coaches are suggesting that they continue to play for their club team in the summer and fall (if they do not play a fall sport). The college coaches want their recruits competing with the best so that they can develop and be as prepared as possible when they arrive on campus.

Not only does playing for a top club team help the player gain exposure to the top college coaches it helps the player develop.

If you do not want to have your child play club lacrosse then don't. Not everyone thinks it is madness. Nobody is forcing anyone to play for a club team.

What makes you so bitter?

Funniest thing is many many college coaches will tell you they hate the club teams. Hate the early recruiting. Hypocritical? You bet. And no doubt that the 300 D1 kids play club. But I submit, they would be playing D1 lacrosse regardless of the club. What did colleges do 20 years ago without club teams? They actually went out and recruited. They actually went out and recruited Juniors and Seniors. The club teams have perverted the entire process. Sure, now college coaches can go to one event rather than multiple high school games. Easy for them to now have access to 7th and 8th graders. But is this good for the overall health of the game? The only benefit I see is for exposure for kids from non-hotbed areas. This cycle is madness. Pushing 3rd and 4th graders to play year round. Camps, clinics; fall ball, winter league etc. Because if you don't he won't be on the "A" team. And if he's not on the "A" team, he will won't be seen at tournaments. And if he's not seen at tournaments, he can't play D1. And so it goes. Parents chase the dream and the directors laugh, watching parents chase their tails, as they make yet another large deposit in their bank.

Hooray for your son. And by the way. No indictment on the club teams or directors. They are more than happy to receive your $$. It's the parents that drove this. PAL wasn't good enough. Middle school wasn't good enough. HS not good enough. And the unintended consequences? Kids playing year round. And you can say it's voluntary, but parents don't want their son to fall behind. So the best kids move in a certain direction and the masses follow. Are you saying the recruiting of 9th graders is a positive thing? Are you saying parents with limited resources have to pay thousands of dollars a year to just keep up with his teammates? I'm making a broader argument, and those with tunnel vision talk about their own son. My son is done. Graduated college. Played lower Division 1. He has said to me he probably won't let his son play lacrosse. And if he does, there is no way he is going to spend every summer, traversing the east coast tournament circuit. I guess if there is any silver lining, his education and experience has given him perspective, many of us have lost.

If you want to talk equality, there is none and never will be. Get over it. Even in a socialist society, like the former USSR and China, there are haves and have nots. There is no equality in sports either. Some kids are born with more talent than others. There is no equality, thats just crap.

Club teams are what you make of them. PAL is obligatory if you value your community. My kid hates PAL but does it because it is the right thing to do. Club lax is what she likes and has fun doing. As a family, we enjoy the travel and going to places we might not have otherwise ever been to. It is a good experience and everyone has fun.

If a child feels like they NEED to play club maybe there something wrong with the big picture? Why NEED? Why do they feel it is forced? To be competitive? To get recruited? For what end? A scholarship - anyone who doesn't know those are mostly pipe dreams is an idiot. Or because they want to be the best they can be at the sport they hopefully love? That is a want, not a need. If you WANT to do it, it is not forced. So do it. It sounds to me like parents bitching that they need to cut back on some things they want in order to pay for something their kids want. Tough shiat. Shouldn't have had a kid.

I have to share this age story I heard yesterday about this crazy game of Lacrosse. I will preface what I say here with the fact that the story comes second hand from 15 and 16 year old kids. With that said, some boys recently played in the 2017 bracket at a well known tournament in Del. last weekend. Again, allegedly this IMG team from Florida had multiple kids 19 and 20 years old. One kid (man) had his THREE YEAR OLD SON there watching him play. Another man had a Duck Dynasty beard and admitted to the LI kids he was already 21. Again, I heard this second or third hand, but if it's even remotely true...
Is it not time to move this now completely bastardized sport to an age based system? How is this allowed to continue?

I have to share this age story I heard yesterday about this crazy game of Lacrosse. I will preface what I say here with the fact that the story comes second hand from 15 and 16 year old kids. With that said, some boys recently played in the 2017 bracket at a well known tournament in Del. last weekend. Again, allegedly this IMG team from Florida had multiple kids 19 and 20 years old. One kid (man) had his THREE YEAR OLD SON there watching him play. Another man had a Duck Dynasty beard and admitted to the LI kids he was already 21. Again, I heard this second or third hand, but if it's even remotely true...
Is it not time to move this now completely bastardized sport to an age based system? How is this allowed to continue?

of the 2015 playoff teams in A last year who is primed to make it back.
Quot had a great run and some young guns
Northport fell a little short
Ward Melville never count them out
Smith west and East seem to always be in the thick of it reload
Half Hallow East and West have solid young squads
West Islip who knows what you will get outside of a good game
Sachem's seem stout
Bayshore remind me how they got in again
Walt Whit
Middle Country happy to be mentioned
Riverhead were they a playoff team or was that a late game they had with WM


Bellport and West Bab out now for goodness sake take brentwood, longwood, Pat Med, WFlyod copaigue and deer park out of A. if the playoffs mandate you need to be 500. here are 6 teams which an avg team should beat wins.

Has Port chosen a head coach yet?

Sachem has an assistant taking over. They say seamless transition but that is just someone saying it. Lets see what happens this year.

Why are districts so willing to push out coaches that have great track records and are so dedicated to the program? I look at Sayville and have to cross my fingers and hope that doesn't happen in my district.

If 2 or 3 people complain enough, skittish AD's and superintendents will cave to the pressure. High School lax is crazy now. Look at the last few years....SWR, Sayville, Glenn, Sachem North, Huntington, HHHW, and a don't forget Smithtown West a bunch of years ago. Not one of these coaches deserved to be out of a job. These were coaches that put in a huge amount of time for their programs, but were treated poorly. It's HS not the pros. IMHO

Sometimes the coaches think it's the pros and not high school. They take liberties that they shouldn't.

Sometimes the coaches think it's the pros and not high school. They take liberties that they shouldn't.

Where do you see 300 2018 commits ? I see about 50 on all recruiting sites.

If 2 or 3 people complain enough, skittish AD's and superintendents will cave to the pressure. High School lax is crazy now. Look at the last few years....SWR, Sayville, Glenn, Sachem North, Huntington, HHHW, and a don't forget Smithtown West a bunch of years ago. Not one of these coaches deserved to be out of a job. These were coaches that put in a huge amount of time for their programs, but were treated poorly. It's HS not the pros. IMHO

Parents are way too involved with the management side of HS sports. When a coach has invest 10+ years in a winning program and is beloved by the vast majority of players, a few parents of kids who are unhappy their kid isn't playing should NOT be able to cause the removal of said coach. Parents really need to stand up and support the great, committed coaches because they deserve our support.

Town summer programs they turn into personal businesses abusing their position of authority and forcing kids to join as opposed to letting kids choose what they want to do over the summer.

I would imagine that it takes a lot more than two or three parents complaining. I would also like to believe that the complaints must have some merit. Parents saying "My son should be starting" is not going to get a coach removed. Bullying, abusive behavior, financial conflicts of interest or impropriety. Conduct unbecoming, legal issues etc...

I would imagine that it takes a lot more than two or three parents complaining. I would also like to believe that the complaints must have some merit. Parents saying "My son should be starting" is not going to get a coach removed. Bullying, abusive behavior, financial conflicts of interest or impropriety. Conduct unbecoming, legal issues etc...