BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2023-5th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016

No, it is not ok! I think I settled it.

Thanks coach. Youve proven to be as ineffective and divisive as advertised

Let it go...let it gooooo!

Badgers were much better under BM. The intensity is gone! Killer instinct....gone!

There were also Outlaws that were changing into MB uniforms-- pick a team

Bob, get yourself on some medication. The kids had FUN, they don't miss you!

Why can't kids play on more than one team?

IMO I think a Club is misrepresenting itself. When you win games and Championships with “borrowed” players it is not representative of talent that Club recruited. When parents are paying thousands of dollars for a Club team, you are under the assumption the product (and wins) are legit. When you see Championship wins on a website, you assume that came from Club talent and Clubs coaches. Instead the reality of the situation is the team only wins when they have guest appearances from talent that other elite clubs developed. It’s false advertising.

Second a coach is actually taking credit for a player he didn’t actually develop and train. Why any coach would want someone else taking credit for their time and talents is beyond understanding. JS deserves a lot of royalties from a lot of Clubs.

But the overriding issue is the parents paying thousands of dollars to have the program develop their child, NOT to win games. The 'guest' players take valuable time away from the kids that don't get the opportunity to play because of the 'guest' player. If you're on a team that uses 'guest' players, you're really getting ripped off.

This is why lacrosse needs to follow USA hockey. Every team submits a certified roster to USA hockey for the season. For each game, a uniform score sheet (same form for all games) is used, with each team sticking its roster on the score sheet, which lists each player and jersey number. Each kid wears a jersey with their name on the back and the jersey number. Everything is open and transparent, and can be checked at HQ if need be. And a birth certificate is submitted with the rosters to USA hockey.

Love it, too bad the cheating losers will fight this. They've spent so much time and money grooming little Johnny for a scholarship, not giving a damn who they may be being unfair to.

Lacrosse needs some sort of sanction. No one knows who's really on the team, how old they are or what grade they are in. Until this sanction happens, cheating will continue.

I agree whole heartedly about sanctions centered around age and grade. I don't agree about the Who's on what team. I also disagree that US lacrosse only lets a player play for one group (had be brought up prior years). As you get older you will want to have the flexibility to play for multiple groups or have the option. That helps you son grow and gain different perspectives and training.

These tournaments are not a part of some sort of league where there needs to be consistency. One weekend to the next, you are feeding another programs tournament. If there were a series and league involvement then Id say a static rosters. if not they are truly all independent tournaments.

Each weekend is mutually exclusive to the last or future weekends games. Who cares who you played for.

a good coach wont limit you as well he will promote you playing across clubs. A real coach will support you playing outside your club (when it doesn't conflict with you club).

Badger Dad here, not taking away from anything AJ is doing but I know I speak for most parents on this team when I say. Last years dynamic between AJ and Bob was absolutely the best I've ever seen and MY child thrived on it. That is why the team was extremely successful. All about having fun but I didn't pay $2500 for FUN. I want to win games and tournaments. If you want FUN, stay with PAL. By the way, it's very obvious to know who you are since you are in the minority. You are better off just staying silent so the team can regain itself.

you are a LOSER for saying "I" you dont play you dope..you should enjoy watching your kid play..only thing you should really worry abt is that you kid is getting better. you sound so foolish...5th grader may be more mature than you...

All I can say right now is this issue is being seriously worked on......

Agreed there is no structured league or series. However there is an underlying assumption there is Club continuity. This board is filled with posts ranking one club over another and team performance at various tournaments. And when players decide which Clubs they want to play for, it is usually based on team track record, which is assumed comes from the coaching and not guest players.
Tournaments are independently run and that is partly where a player gets their growth and experience – playing against teams from MD, PA, VA. Big learning opportunity. Players also get varied perspectives and training playing for their town/school coaches and Club coaches – that’s were multidimensional training comes in.
When a club brings in Studs for guest appearances it is doubtful it is for the benefit of the player and more likely the benefit of the Club name. Why else bring in a guest player? Because they are short players? Nobody buys that line anymore. I would be curious a Club Directors perspective, particularly those who recruit, train and mentor those players. A player that plays on two teams in one tournament is potentially playing 6-10 games in one day. Say that player gets hurt in his guest appearance game and can’t play in any of the games for his regular Club. Or maybe the player just gets tired, and his performance drops off for his other Club games. I would think a Club coach would have an issue with that.
It doesn’t seem healthy for any youth player and will make them far more prone to injury at some point. I would think this would be a concern for the overall health of the sport as well as coaches. Also curious the perspective of the Tournament Directors that do have rules banning players from playing on more than one team in one tournament. Why would they have that rule in place?

The above works for those kids that are lax 24/7 and who are elite players where D-III is basically their worst case scenario. It does not, however, create an ideal environment for the more casual player - the good athlete who plays multiple sports who will likely be nothing more than a decent HS lacrosse player. I have spoken to parents of kids who have dabbled in the summer travel lax scene but who have not returned - finding it unorganized, overpriced, and with uneven competition. Seeing kids play for multiple teams in the same tournament is a major turnoff for the large majority of parents. The opinion expressed above is certainly the minority one - maybe not the minority one amongst people who live and breathe this stuff - but its the minority opinion amongst prospective customers I am sure. Parents who are exposed to other youth sports find travel lax clownish. Parents who are all in with lacrosse don't realize this - they don't talk to others outside their lax cliques.

What the owners of these clubs are missing is that if they structured things more like USA hockey (and what some other sports do as well), they would make more money. They already have the lax freaks. By making certain changes (enforcing age and participation restrictions, etc) I believe they would grow their numbers and teams, and capture the more causal families. For a 24/7 elite laxer, playing against double holdbacks from MD may seem like a rite of passage that will get the kid better. For the more casual family, its "screw this, we will not be back".

My kids love lacrosse and hockey. With regard to hockey, they play about 50 games over 6 months - usually 2 leagues plus 2 weekend travel tournaments. Almost all games are competitive. You know all opponents are on age and belong on that team. Schedules are set, leagues are joined, and tournaments are entered based on the strength of your team. The clubs almost always get this right, in large part, because the opponents are always on age, and no one is using guest players that would tip the competitive balance. Also, no one is seeing their kid lose ice time to a guest player - nor their kid being bossed by older kids.

And USA hockey does have spring elite teams and summer events where kids get to play with other clubs/coaches/kids to obtain the benefits (exposure, competition, coaching) that such provides. But it is done outside the season.

One impediment that lacrosse has is that it still honors the Town season. Prime lacrosse time (March-early June) is hands off for travel lacrosse.

"I" paid the $2500 and most will understand that it was meant as "I want the boys to win". Kids get better with practice. Tournaments are the end result of practice. We keep a score and we track W&L's. Every parent out there wants their child/team to win. You're one of those guys who doesn't like the MVP trophy but rather likes the PARTICIPATION trophy. Got it.

I ENJOY a fine wine or a good movie. I LOVE watching my kid kick your kids A$$

Could not agree more. You've done enough damage to our team but complaining up and down the sidelines last year and forcing an issue this year. Let it go already.

Why is no one talking about S2S? Where did they come from? There doesn't seem to be too much information about them. What they did last weekend was impressive. Besides the Bandits, are they the new team to beat? Will the Bandits play them?

Shore to Shore is a talented 2023 team comprised mostly of kids who are born in 2004 not 2005. They are very talented but will be unable to participate in any U11 tournament based on age. Again, another reason to come up with a sanction organization that has guidelines and rules.

Make it strictly by birth year. 2005 on the side of the shorts, not 2023. 2005 on tourney machine, not 2023. Easy-peasy. And the college coaches should welcome this - as the kids get older. Best way to predict future success is to have kids play vs kids there own age. And the big clubs should welcome this. Rules that are strictly enforced across the board will, over time, favor the clubs with more $, more marketing, more bling, more teams, etc.

Obviously a solid team. Poached kids from express, igloo, 32, then sprinkled in a few others. Not sure about holdbacks but that's irrelevant. Part of their performance may have been from clubs playing everyone since it's the fall. I'm sure teams will shorten bench next time they play in summer.

How would you know that level of information? I thought team was made up of Manhasset, RVC and other South Shore towns?

Not difficult. At some point those boys all played PAL/town. Lax world isn't that big.

Shore2Shore is a good team. Did that really surprise anyone? Everyone knew that 1/2 of a very good Manhasset team, some Igloo and Badgers were starting it. It doesn't take a genius to realize that they would be good. We all also knew that the HB's would most likely be taking a small step back. Still very good. Igloo showed that they have potential, albeit dramatically inconsistent (based on two tourneys). I agree with the prior poster, though. Fall is really meaningless. Teams will have different kids on them by the summer and coaches with be more in tune with their players' strengths and weaknesses.

many are not even 2023 -- they are 2022's

Why was there an assumption that the HB's would be taking a step back?

Why aren't they playing as a 2022 team if the majority of the boys are in that age group?

Fact: there is not a single 2022 player on shore2shore. Every single player on the team is 2023.

Fact: The reason you don't know more abt s2s is because the team was formed by a group of parents that has rejected the trash talk and drama of travel lacrosse to create a positive environment for their kids to thrive.

]Fact: there is not a single 2022 player on shore2shore. Every single player on the team is 2023.

Fact: S2S did have a kid play in the last tournament that plays on a 2022 team.

Fact: They are not that good.
Fact: defensman plays on Express 2022

Don't those two facts contradict one another !

Exactly. Because they can't win in that bracket.

We play grade based tourneys last i checked. if you want to whine about holdbacks go to the 2019 thread

No really good additions, they are much weaker at the lefty attack position, they lost a fairly decent face-off kid and had negative coaching change.

This team will be lucky to make through this year intact, which is a shame because it is a good team.

Fact: The reason you don't know more abt s2s is because the team was formed by a group of parents that has rejected the trash talk and drama of travel lacrosse to create a positive environment for their kids to thrive.
[/quote]
That's hysterical, Manhasset parents are all about 2 things, Drama and playing little Johnny the whole game. Enjoy the honeymoon