BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Looney's Boys Lacrosse

Lot of what you say is fine...But the most important thing is that playing down in age is wrong at the youth level. Plain and simple....Why the need to have this structure of letting kids that have been heldback/reclass/prefirst play down in YOUTH lacrosse.. They can get their advantage in High School where the ages are all over the place. Spin in any way you want but the values and ethics of playing down in Youth lacrosse goes against all the true spirit of youth athletics.

They all want verbal commits before the next cocktail party. Looneys did not add this year. The core is back.

Looneys 2020 added seven new strong players, lost two not so strong players.

Quoted from above:

Two of the weakest, most tired arguments on this forum. To think crabs has the market cornered on hold backs is absurd. The double hold back is largely of myth. You can't be 19 before your senior yr and play in the MIAA. Anyone aware of players who had to sit out their senior year? Much of this discussion has been centered around 2020. If your kid is on AA or even A club team they must have some ambition to play high level high school. As an AA 8th grader they should be capable of playing against older kids. Plus if it was still age based it would u15 and all your prefirst and reclassers would still be eligible.


My question to you would be, if kids are AA and should be capable of playing older kids, why the heck are you promoting holding kids back to play younger kids?!?! Let everyone play older kids including the kids that reclass. They want to repeat a grade- no problem- but play on age or up and play older, not younger.

My comments are not to promote or defend hold backs. My boys are public school so no hold back option. I believe single year age groups like soccer would best until 8th grade, then just U15. But I think grade based is better for youth than 2 year age based since the vast majority of those kids are summer birthdays. There are some legitimate reasons for kids to enter school late. Should those kids not be allowed to play lacrosse in 8th grade?

My kid also plays ice hockey and I like the model- so to answer your question- yes- the holdbacks, late starters etc should not be playing 8th grade lax. You can still go single year, but base it on the year kids are born- period. It's nice and easy in other sports. I'm not sure why lacrosse is all over the map. If you ask me, it takes away the legitimacy of the sport to have such "fluffy" rules in regards to rosters.

I also like the hockey model, but you really only see the teams stick to the one year model in tier 1. Double "A" teams and down are every other year ( bantam would be 2002 and 2001) etc.

I personally like the soccer model of every year from September 1 - August 31 the following year. This would keep kids grouped together with their school piers and keep it close to the graduation year model.

Sorry to say you don't have true facts...
added several NEW players...

Not really. Kids to,support a select few.

I like the 9/1 cutoff, but think it should be flexible for those kids that really were not ready for kindergarten with a birthdate just before 9/1. I let the kids in that were legitimately in the grade (not just playing down) and had a birthday in July or August as well. - this is what they did in Denver - right?

You guys don't have older kids so you lack perspective. All of these proposed changes have been used and tried before. Like it or not, grade based teams are here because coaches want to compare kids of the same grade - even youth teams.

You can keep moaning about it, but it is a waste of time.

This is spot on - unfortunately, regardless of age, coaches want to see which kids are coming up in specific grades - especially in HS. With the recruiting process starting so much earlier nowadays (8th grade, sometimes even earlier), grade based teams are essential because when coaches look at the team, they want to know they are recruiting 2020, 2019, etc. class boys - doesn't do them any good if the team has 2 or 3 grades mixed together. Unfortunately, that is exactly what fuels the reclasses, but there is nothing that can be done about that unless the schools themselves make rules to disallow that.

I agree and we should be pushing for the people to do it at K. or 1st. that way you are prepared for the kids you will play. Nothing worse then thinking you have a spot and a kid changes grades and pushes your kid down a spot in 9th grade.

As long as the pinnacle of the sport is college, everything will be done to prepare for those 4 years of eligibility.

Thanks for the update and insight. Does that mean growth hormones/ shakes / special training. All for what.

You got that right...Coaches want to see my third grader not the true third grade age kids...I am going to throw a tantrum if my prefirst isnt allowed to play down in third grade. It isnt fair to him or his recruiters....Dave Pietramala told me my third grader had some potential and he was glad he knew he was in third grade, Petro said he could care less about my son being a fourth garde age kid...Petro says its ok ...I say its ok...and all cheaters say it is ok...

Its cheating at the youth level..High School has always been grade..no one is arguing that...Youth sports was meant to be age base due to ethics, fairplay, morals, etc...But adults like you have helped take lacrosse down a less than ethical path...

I would like to go a step futher. Why cant we play our child on whatever age team, oops I mean grade base team we want. Then we can just put him in that grade to match. That seems like a fair way to even it out for everyone. We all get the same advantage as the kids that cant make it now playing against their on age

You're completely insane, and have totally missed my point, so let me try and put it into terminology that a simple mind can understand, hopefully. I said that I don't agree with the reclasses, but it is unfortunately something that is unavoidable unless the schools stop accepting them. Saying "adults like you have helped take lacrosse down a less than ethical path" is simply ignorant and incorrect - I don't believe in playing down, or holdbacks for sports reasons, and would never do so for my son. In fact, my son is a young 13 year old 8th grader, and is currently playing up and actually starting every game on his HS JV team in their fall league (and they are undefeated), so don't make foolish uninformed statements. With that said, unfortunately I don't make the rules, and neither do you. "Youth sports was meant to be age base due to ethics, fairplay, morals, etc" is simply your opinion - "meant to be" is an asinine thing to say - according to who? The fact is, there are U based teams which are age based, and there are grade based teams which are grade (and not age) based. If you don't like it, or your son can't handle it, don't play. My son has chosen to play grade based and play up, and has excelled, and is right there talent wise with a bunch of much older kids and is getting better at lacrosse because of it. Everyone needs to make their own choices.

No I get the point as many others do. You can sum up your long novel in two sentences.
My son is superman the JV starter and plays up so what is the big deal. YOUTH sports is about winning at any cost....... Once again people like you are the reason that youth lacrosse has no moral balance now. You cant even comprehend that simple concept..

Good point - I'm doing exactly what you're wishing for which is that I won't hold my kid back, and also playing him up a grade, and that makes me completely unethical and immoral. Very simple concept to understand, I must be a complete moron to have missed that. Thanks for the clarification.

No problem clarifying it. Maybe you are a complete moron, but I doubt it. The whole grade based format taking over YOUTH lacrosse is not about your superman son, but somehow you think it is?? JV and HS teams are grade base and always have been and will continue to be. And because a few college coaches recruit in 8th grade we need to change the entire way youth lacrosse is run?? Are you actually that easy to sway? There are over 400,000 thousand CHILDREN playing YOUTH lacrosse today...So for your superman son and a few hundred more we need to change the entire format. Yea ..you get it..

What happened to Looney's 2017 and 2018? Those teams are not listed on their website.

You got that right...Coaches want to see my third grader not the true third grade age kids...I am going to throw a tantrum if my prefirst isnt allowed to play down in third grade. It isnt fair to him or his recruiters....Dave Pietramala told me my third grader had some potential and he was glad he knew he was in third grade, Petro said he could care less about my son being a fourth garde age kid...Petro says its ok ...I say its ok...and all cheaters say it is ok...

Its cheating at the youth level..High School has always been grade..no one is arguing that...Youth sports was meant to be age base due to ethics, fairplay, morals, etc...But adults like you have helped take lacrosse down a less than ethical path...[/quote]

You're completely insane, and have totally missed my point, so let me try and put it into terminology that a simple mind can understand, hopefully. I said that I don't agree with the reclasses, but it is unfortunately something that is unavoidable unless the schools stop accepting them. Saying "adults like you have helped take lacrosse down a less than ethical path" is simply ignorant and incorrect - I don't believe in playing down, or holdbacks for sports reasons, and would never do so for my son. In fact, my son is a young 13 year old 8th grader, and is currently playing up and actually starting every game on his HS JV team in their fall league (and they are undefeated), so don't make foolish uninformed statements. With that said, unfortunately I don't make the rules, and neither do you. "Youth sports was meant to be age base due to ethics, fairplay, morals, etc" is simply your opinion - "meant to be" is an asinine thing to say - according to who? The fact is, there are U based teams which are age based, and there are grade based teams which are grade (and not age) based. If you don't like it, or your son can't handle it, don't play. My son has chosen to play grade based and play up, and has excelled, and is right there talent wise with a bunch of much older kids and is getting better at lacrosse because of it. Everyone needs to make their own choices. [/quote]

No I get the point as many others do. You can sum up your long novel in two sentences.
My son is superman the JV starter and plays up so what is the big deal. YOUTH sports is about winning at any cost....... Once again people like you are the reason that youth lacrosse has no moral balance now. You cant even comprehend that simple concept..
[/quote]

Good point - I'm doing exactly what you're wishing for which is that I won't hold my kid back, and also playing him up a grade, and that makes me completely unethical and immoral. Very simple concept to understand, I must be a complete moron to have missed that. Thanks for the clarification. [/quote]

No problem clarifying it. Maybe you are a complete moron, but I doubt it. The whole grade based format taking over YOUTH lacrosse is not about your superman son, but somehow you think it is?? JV and HS teams are grade base and always have been and will continue to be. And because a few college coaches recruit in 8th grade we need to change the entire way youth lacrosse is run?? Are you actually that easy to sway? There are over 400,000 thousand CHILDREN playing YOUTH lacrosse today...So for your superman son and a few hundred more we need to change the entire format. Yea ..you get it..[/quote]

First of all, let's get off of the superman thing. My son also has 2 8th grade teammates who are doing the same thing he is, so he is certainly not a "superman" as you say - he just happens to be a talented lacrosse player, as are many other kids on his team. Second, I'm not telling anyone to change a format - you are. The format is, there are grade based and age based teams, tourneys, and leagues, with elite club teams generally being grade based down to 2024 and lower. That is simply the way it is, and until US Lacrosse or whatever governing body changes it, that is what everyone has to live with. Most (if not all) rec formats are still U (age) based, and I don't see that changing anytime soon, so there is a venue for age based lacrosse. It just so happens that the higher end tourneys and teams are grade based, but it has been like that for quite a long time actually. Youth lacrosse has not changed the way it has been run, it's just that the club and tournament circuits have taken over rec and such, therefore the youth grade based teams/clubs are more visible and get more recognition than the age based teams. Bottom line is, I'll roll with the punches, and as long as my son wants to keep playing, he'll do so in whatever format is required. You cannot say it's cheating if there is no rule violation - you may not like it, but as long as players are playing in the appropriate category (meeting the age requirement for U based teams/tourneys and playing with their actual grade in grade based), there is no cheating going on.

So what is your stance on the 8th grader who decides to reclass at the last sec. and plays for a 2020 team when he is still 2019? Or his parents say we plan to reclass him next year so lets just have him play with the grade below this year?

SADLY..happens a lot..

There are so many ways to game the system, it's a joke. If rules against playing by birthdate aren't going to be imposed, then everything is ok on the reclass front. You can hold your kid back in first grade, start him late, reclass in 8th grade or say that you'll reclass your kid at a later date and play down. There is only one single reason to do any of this and that's to give your kid an advantage by playing against mostly younger kids.

Are you the same parent that plays his kid up but gets upset if a kid checks him and blows him up because he does not have the testosterone of the older kids yet? Then you run out on the field and yell that the game is unfair? I can see it now.

That only happens in the summer, when school is over. It is perfectly fine for a team to have someone like that because he is now part of that grade.

Stop whining and grow a pair.

Now that is tough guy talk... Spoken by guy whose son/team can not compete against the same age children.

Amazing how these whiners pick every possible thread to cry about kids who reclass.

This thread is about the Looney's, or what's left of that club.

Well reclass effects every club in this area. And maybe the reclass issue played a part in the Looneys lack of success at the 2017 and 2018 group.

My stance is that I don't agree with it at all - he will play a team this weekend that has 4 reclasses on it, and I guess we'll see how that plays out. Unfortunately, I can't do anything about it...

No, actually I'm not, and you would never see it with me - sorry to disappoint you. Although, you may be the parent that runs out there when my son blows up yours, and I'm SURE you're that parent on the sideline who says "there is no way that kid is 13" - I hear it at every game and tourney. Unfortunately, it's hard for some people to remember we're playing lacrosse and not checkers - they are holding sticks, not pool noodles. Truth is, there are a few kids on my son's 2020 team who are just over 5ft tall and 110 lbs or so, and they are 3 or 4 months older than him. Then, there are a few boys (including mine) who are 5'11" - 6'1", 165-185 lbs. It's a weird age, and boys sprout up at different rates. Like I keep saying, I completely disagree with reclassing and holdbacks, and I think it is cheating the system, but it isn't cheating by definition, unfortunately. Since I can't do anything about it, I just go with it...

Glad you finally are coming round. Its cheating..And most of us have a opinion when asked. Everyone is going with the flo if they want to play club lacrosse. But that doesnt mean we cant be pro active in this cheating the system. I give my opinion and write USL when I get a chance. I am not a sheep and just sit that and do nothing. If USL would come out strongly and actively against it, it might slowly change back to something that is in line with YOUTH sports.

You can keep calling it cheating, but since no rules are being violated, you are the one who sounds like a whiner.

You can keep calling it cheating, but since no rules are being violated, you are the one who sounds like a whiner.

No. Those kids were just terrible. Period. And it sounds like the club gave up on them at a crucial time.

Club has one team left. 2020 orange. They too will be caught this year by crabs, Fca.

I would guess that the kids on the other 9 teams would disagree

The club is falling apart.

Please elaborate, two teams folding doesn't mean they are falling apart.