BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Complaint Department

Finally someone gets it. The big clubs are a business. They are in business to make money. That is their first priority. They will tell you whatever they think you need to hear to get you to play for them so they can collect your money. If you think they are looking out for your best interest before their own you are delusional.

Great post.

all well and good but I would bet on a top club team for recruitment over any high school coach.

only if your kid is on THE top club team. Otherwise get him on a team with good coaching, and a talent level that fits him where he can thrive. Not one where he'll be a number and another tuition to fund the top team. If you're kid is not one of the elite they'll get lost in the big programs. Go with a smaller club or one that has one team in the age group with a good coach.

Let's not generalize with any high school coach....
GC, WM, Manhasset, SW, SE all coaches that have equal or better recruitment for their kids than the club programs

College coaches will listen to those guys over any club coach or director - they will actually lean on those guys more than they do the club guys during the recruiting process

Well,most of those kids got recruited from their clubs. Those coaches were blessed with talent and didn't hesitate to take the credit for it! I know first hand, being from one of those programs.

Yes, most of the top clubs are filled with those particular towns you just mentioned. How about the several hundred other towns? You won't get it from your high school coach. Trust me.

And who do you think the first call goes to after the college coach talks to the club team coach? I can guarantee its the high school coach. Recruiting is about more than just lacrosse ability. It also involves academics. No college coach wants to make a commitment to a kid that will not be able to handle the school academically and will be gone after one year. The club coach cannot vouch for what type of student he is, only the high school coach can give that information.

K

Very well said lots of 2019 kids jumping ship will be very disappointed down the road!

your first sentence proves my point. And transcripts speak for themselves. You need the club exposure. Its just the way it is. Not every kid will make it because the sport is flooded. Be realistic about your chances. It is a business first. Welcome to America. Not everyone gets a trophy in real life.

True, if you have a high school coach that is not involved. Luckily my sons played for a coach that is involved and helped every player that wanted to play in college to find a place to play.
EVERY PLAYER....not just the D1 players. Most are not D1 players. Most in fact will play D3 in college, many will play D2 and a small percentage will play D1. A good high school coach is intersted in helping all his players find a place where they will fit in a play. Most clubs are only interested in helping the stand-out players to pad their club resume and sucker more people into playing for them. They all brag about the 4 or 5 they have every year that commit to D1 schools but what about the other 40 or 50 kids that played on both their A and B teams? They are left on their own or they get help from their varsity coach.
Don't kid yourself. It's all about lining their pockets and using whoever they have to to keep the business going.

That's exactly what the problem is! Most high school coaches are political,and only help who they want to help. I heard there are some school districts that are being invested SE,SW, Manhasset, along with the AD's Regarding abuse of their power. How do they sleep at night? Why were they rehired? They are ruining the sport for these boys. These men are abusive! Over the years complaints have been put in and superintendents have left. Finally they are being investigated. Let's put the fun back in the game. If anyone gets the opportunity to watch a game take notes how the stats are padded for certain players.

Really?? What investigation?? What proof do you have??

Many, many HS coaches are outstanding and help kids with recruiting far more than clubs do.

Maybe we should investigate you. Your accusations are disgusting and possibly you should finally be revealed as the hypochondriac you are.

Take your meds and go watch a butterfly for a few hours. Relax.

You're kidding me right? 5th and 6th grade. Come back in a few years...the recruiting years... when your town team is getting spanked and overlooked because you drank too much of the 3v cool aid. Then you play patriot elite and attend recruiting tournaments that have less than a dozen coaches trying to watch games on 10 different fields. It is all a joke. Your best investment is with the top club teams if you can get on their top 2 teams. Take it from someone who has been through the system, not a hater, also believed until went through it.

such inspiring words of wisdom. There are some good high school coaches but they cant do it without club teams. The training pales in comparison.

There is no right answer to this. It's all about who you know and may or may not have connections with . There are kids who never played on club teams that are recognized because someone in their family knows somebody. High school coaches will make somebody get seen if they think that kid has promise for a college team. High school coaches and club teams can both be beneficial

3V one of the best teams town or club?! That's rich. Plus, whatever your thoughts are regarding the board, the coaching and development of the kids, etc, are all wrong. You are clearly a 3Villager. If you can get out of the woods and take a good look at the trees, you will find a completely different picture.

I would put 4 or five other towns in 2022 up against 3v, and maybe 3V wins a couple, but I guarantee the boys on the other teams carry themselves with greater class and dignity.

BTW, what club teams did these kids beat? Probably not any of the top echelon ...

I heard that 2024 High Voltage team is more like Power Outage.

This says it all right here, and I quote,
"Your best investment is with the top club teams IF YOU CAN GET ON THEIR TOP 2 TEAMS."
That's all the club teams care about, promoting their top teams to pad their stats to get more naive parents like you to shell out thousands of dollars to them.
The high school coach will help EVERYONE on their team find a place to play if they want to play, from the best D1 players to a kid that is not that good but loves the game and will play for a college club team just to keep playing.
The problem coming down the road is that their are so many club teams now that the talent on each team is getting watered down as they all poach from each other.
College coaches can't be everywhere and can't see everyone.
In the past when the clubs were truly for the elite players it was easy for coaches to watch a game and see 5-10 true blue chip D1 prospects on the field at the same time. That time is past already. Watch the best club teams play today and you may see one or two true D1 can't miss prospects playing each other.
The tide will turn and colleges will go back to recruiting through the high schools again.
And don't even get me started on early recruiting. How many boys that verbally commit in 8th, 9th or even 10th grade actually finish their college years at the school they initially commited to??????
At that age they are committing to a name not even knowing what they want to study in collge or if that school will be a good fit for them later on.

high coaches will help EVERYONE. if I had a nickel for every time I heard that one. the tides do change from where colleges recruit from. find the best fit. there is plenty of clubs to choose from. even if they are watered down you still need that exposure and training.

They will not go back to the high schools for anything. Wake up. Look at the numbers. Clubs are getting smarter, moving to different states, keeping track of the kids that have promise. Showing through the young years of playing what they thrive at and what they need work on. College coaches are able to call a club and get the stats on a solid amount of players all at one time. High school coaches come and go, I have seen it first hand. Your kid plays for a coach for 2 years and the coach leaves or retires, now a new coach steps in and knows nothing about what went on the years he wasn't there. Play for a good organized club that shows interest in your son. Is $ involved? Of course it is. What doesn't? As a parent you need to smarten up and realize your child's capabilities. If he's a legit player and has a shot, you keep him in the top competitive arena and hope he continues to thrive. If he's a B player than stick with town and don't waste your $. In the end except for a few, HS coaches are a joke and if you look closely they are the ones that are grabbing the $. Starting clinics and charging parents with the promise they will watch the progress and do what they can for their son. If you don't do it than the fear sets in that your son will be cut playing time because you weren't part of their "program". Once again wake up to the reality.

Really??????
The high school coaches have been doing a fine job of it without help from any club coaches up until about 10 years ago.
Hogh School and College lacrosse didn't just start in the last 10-15 years.
But now the clubs convinced people to pay them big bucks for the same thing the the high school coaches were doing as part of their job for a long, long time.

It's a sad state of affairs when individuals find that making anonymous digs is the best use of ones time. Regarding the self-serving accusations made against the coaches and parents of High Voltage, I have to say I am confused. If putting ones child before a school, town, or community is self serving then jot my name on the very top of that self serving list. If you have some unspoken commitment to a group of friends like the three musketeers and that works for you, more power to you. A parents loyalty should most certainly lie first and foremost with their child in my opinion. If you are putting your friends and community before the wellbeing of you own child, it is you that has it backwards. Don't get me wrong, I care a great deal about my community, just not more than my children. As for not watching a High Voltage game.... Perhaps you should before passing judgment. There are kids that have been playing since kindergarten and kids that just picked up a stick. There are boys that play on a club team and boys that do not. The coaches on that team are committed, available, and have the ability to get the most from the boys and yes, they win. I hate to break it to you but kids do like to win. I find that the people that most like to point out that it's not about Winning and losing but about developing players is trying to distract people from the fact that they didn't win a game all season. If you are developing players you should be able to win a game or two. The bottom line is that the coaches and parents of High Voltage decided to go a different direction. One that works best for them. At no point in time has anyone ever said anything good, bad or indifferent for that matter regarding Three Village. If I was a betting man, I would say that this whole back and forth was started by someone other than HV. I do however hope it stops for the sake of our community and more importantly our children. One day whether we like it or not our children are going to find their way onto this website. It is up to us what they read.

That could not be further from the truth.... It's all part of the sales pitch and it's clear they sold you. Let's think for a second, why do all of these clubs want top HS coaches in their program?? Because they have connections and a true understanding of the recruiting process.

You're a clown. Look at the #s. College Lacrosse recruiting has gone up 10 fold since the club teams have been in existence. 15 years ago 1 or 2 kids maybe got the nod to move to College ball, now 5-10 kids are getting that opportunity. Why do you think when you read an up and coming players bio it has a section that says Club Team? You are either a coach or an assistant with your opinion. Learn what's going on around you before making statements. A few HS coaches are good, but most are there for a paycheck and to give a select few opportunities. Oh and by the way check the last posters comments; HS coaches opening up their own clinics to rake in the $ they don't want club teams to get? These guys turned what was once a free sport to learn at the town level, now into their own personal money grab. Those guys are what's ruining the sport not club teams who you know going into it will cost money. Now High school coaches have Lacrosse companies with some BS initials and they bring their friends in to coach and everyone fills their piggy bank. Keep believing in them though, too funny.

so we agree you need the club exposure in this day and age.

you are talking in circles. could it be the reverse as well. YOU NEED THE CLUBS. PERIOD.

We have 20 committed players for the 2016 season. Spread your propaganda elsewhere. I think you have it wrong, when High Voltage plays YOUR team it will be LIGHTS OUT for you!

Let me tell you something Mean Gene, when I get in that ring on Saturday night...... ooooooooooooooooh look out boy 'cuz I'm gonna take these 22 inch pythons and show people what it's all about out. When I get in that squared circle, people are gonna pay Mean Gene.

This "LIGHTS OUT" stuff- very WWE, very vicarious living, very silly.

What exactly are they "committed" to? Relax Killer and say it slowly...4th grade lacrosse. Repeat as necessary.

The board of 3Village does what is best for them. Not so long ago the board allowed kids on the 2017 age group play on their team and a travel team for one year. Now why did they allow that you ask, because 4 of the board members had kids at that age group on the team and they wanted that team to stay intact for that year.

I know they have used a board members business to help evaluate teams at some age groups. Is that a conflict of interest ?

One of the biggest things 3Vlax prepares you for is the conflict of interest being that Patriot Elite is all about A Conflict Of Interest!!!

The idea that someone is spouting nonsense about killer 2024 players is a hoot... Some of the 2024's still need a spot-check as to whether or not they've wet the bed each morning. This isn't a knock against them, THEY ARE EIGHT YEARS OLD... as are some of their parents.

Not from 3v or 2024, but it does take a commitment from both players and parents and coaches to make any program beit town or travel work.

lose the commitment to the team or individual and you lost the team. Saw it happen a few times.

that said I have 3 children in HS and one MS, and have seen 3v for years somehow be there at the end.

Enough of 3V what about West Islip what of them and what's going on there

How about Syosset? How about Massapequa? What is going on with the Smithtowns? Oh wait its football season, have fun boys!

The 2016 Boys Youth Rules was announced by USL today.

I guess all the chatter about age vs grade really wasn't touched and its still a two year span U9-11-13-15, with the Aug 31 cut off date. Looks like the choice was to not modify the rules or mention a governing body that will monitor age appropriate play. No proverbial hammer came down. Someone please correct me, I'd like to be wrong.

- The hotspot towns will continue to kindergarten redshirt and deny.
- The wealthy private school families will continue to kindergarten redshirt and holdback in 8th grade and deny.
- The über wealthy private school families will continue to kindergarten redshirt, holdback in 8th grade, and PG a year and deny.
- The middle income public school families will have on age/grade players who are extremely talented kids because they are tough and play up. But they will get shafted for the college recruiting scene because the colleges will continue to rake in the money from the wealthy families for notoriety. For middle income families, Honoring the Game will become Resent the Game and a big ole flip of the bird.

As the Talking Heads once said, 'same as it ever was'.

Meanwhile, WSYL will gain ground with their even older age requirements and the double holdbacks win on ESPN, and USL won't know why it happened.

Something tells me the people running the industry are those who took advantage to begin with.

Keep growing it!

I can't stop laughing...

USL's focus is almost exclusively on growing the sport, contrary to the tripe that they publish. Anything, including the welfare of the children and the spirit of youth sports, that interferes with that objective, is summarily dismissed. They are painfully aware of the ongoing issue with grade based competition and the epidemic of kids and teams playing down. The have consistently chosen to remain silent on the subject. They are a useless organization.

Agree... To not stand up and take a stand in the playing down an age in YOUTH lacrosse world makes the USL a joke...

Really? So where did the college teams get their players before the club teams emerged? hmmmm...maybe from the high schools????
And you call me a clown???? LOL

Yes, more players are recruited and playing in college today but that is because there are more college lacrosse teams today. It is a growing sport but that has nothing to do with the club tams, they are simply taking advantage of the current popularity of lacrosse.

You forget to take your pills. Are you really that blinded by all the club bs. I have been around this game for over 40years and am proud to call some of the best players to ever play the game my friends. FYI the big club phenomenon has been around for I believe 12 years and that's Express. There are others that have been around longer but they didn't take it to the next level. Before all these youth clubs there was North Hempstead, Harveys and a few others that fielded teams where ex college players played and that's where the Saints Lizards and other LI Pro and Semi Pro teams evolved from. As for the college recruiting scene before the clubs there were always good players and they were always found. The clubs used to be for the elite players but when it became a business and all businesses are in it to make money you have theses clubs selling the BS that this team is an AA team and that team is an A team and so on down the line. This is all to get people who are chasing the dream to shell out more and more money for more training for more privates and everything else under the sun. College coaches will always find the best players for their teams regardless of where they play Town ball or Travel. A stud is a stud on any field. So please go sell your Kool-Aid somewhere else. It might work on the uneducated and newbies but it doesn't work here.

As for coaches doing extra to make their own high school teams better isn't that developing their team. The more a team plays together the better the more cohesive they are. Yes it is a job and if they don't do well they lose that job. So now we say they are taking advantage of the players and parents. Well if they don't do the extra then the parents complain they are not doing enough and get them fired.

a stud is a stud but he still needs the training. my son is 13 and there is a world of difference between his skill level and the skill level of his stud friends who just play town ball. every sport is knee deep in the travel scene now. it may have been different decades ago but this is the way it is right now. you are not sold by it because you've been there done that. there is so much more competition now. parents are just trying to give their child the best opportunities available to them.