BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2018 Fall 2011/Spring 2012

Take a look at any PAL grade, that is broken up A and B, you will find that most (not all) of the older kids somehow are on the A team. Just what it is. Read a book called the Outliers. You will find out why the age thing is such a big deal!

This is getting old guys - enough already
if a kid is in the sixth grade and he is scheduled to graduate in June 2018 then he belongs on a 2018 team regardless if he was born in 1998, 1999 or 2,000 so just stop it.

in the past some kids that have been on a grade based team were not eligible to play in age based tournaments (a lot of kids have missed playing in the U15 nationals with their team because although they were legitimately in 9th grade they were born in Oct,Nov or Dec) US lacrosse addressed this when they moved the cut off to 8/31 and now most but not all kids in 9th grade will be eligible.

I also don't buy into the safety issue - our 2018 kids will all be playing middle school next year and the heights will be from 4' 6" to 6' and the weights will vary from 75 lbs to almost 200 lbs and those will mostly all be 2018 kids born in fall 1999 or 2000 so lets all deal with it and get back to talking about how much the other teams suck and not about how old they are or what grade they really should be in.
just my thoughts

I agree with your points. Sounds like people who are whining as usual. The fact that everyone forgets is that tourney ball at this age is to prepare the boys for school ball and beyond. If the kids are that good, they should be playing up against older or better competition. It means nothing who wins now. In the end, no one remembers who won when you were 12 or 13. So if some teams are stacked with kids on the border of the age limit, then the only one's suffering are the boys if they are spending there time beating up lesser competition.

There is nothing to stop. Physical maturity is a major benefit, plain and simple. Just accept it and admit it.(No my kid is not young for his grade, he's old for the grade and his birth date is within the district cut off of his grade. Yes, his size and strength are a benefit.)
For anyone to say that a kid whose born in 1998 and is playing 2018 has no advantage over a 2000 kid, that is just plain stupidity.
Think a couple of years ahead. Why do you think most 10th graders can't compete/start at the HS varsity level? (some can)Stick skills? No, physical maturity!! Unless he's 17 yrs old and in 10th grade. Which is what the 1998 kid playing 2018 will be in 10th grade!
On a higher level. Why do you think a school like Deerfield is so highly ranked in the high school arena? Because northern Mass is a new Hot Bed? No, because they have a boat load of 13th graders playing HS lacrosse.
The only way we will weed out these people who think there's no difference is to go by birth certificate. Plain and simple. Notice it's always the parents of the kid whose older that thinks it's "OK". If two kids are within the same age bracket and one matures earlier, then that's just the luck of the draw. If one is almost a year and a half to two years older and they're playing in the same "GRADE" then that's an unfair advantage. Some might go so far as to call it something else! We'll let people decide what to call it on their own.

I am on 7th grade 91 white we are a great team and we beat team long island B in shamrock shootout 7-0. We belive that we can play A teams. 91 orange is the best out of all those teams. Lat year i was on express. And alot of players left express to differnt team. So express A last year was a lot better

nice to hear from a player for once instead of all of the parents, now someone tell him if he is in 7th grade he plays 2017 and they have their own thread

I doubt that there are too many 1998 kids in 6th grade, they would have to have been late fall and held back a year and yes being a Nov/Dec 1999 is a big advantage - that is why lacrosse is played in the spring and you should only procreate in the spring to insure your children are birthed in the late fall and early winter and be the oldest in their class.

Better yet, procreate any time you want! If your kid is born in the fall, hold him back another year. "cause he's just not ready for kindergarten." Then he'll be almost 2 years older than the other kids. Sound familiar? For the record, I don't care! Just trying to point out how people like you will go to any length.... Been coaching for twenty years, this is why we need to go by age with birth certificates. So we flush people like this out of the program!

Great game this morning. 2018 express orange and 2018 team LI...express by one or two goals in a very close, very competitive game. All boys on both teams played great and had fun. Parents on both teams well behaved...

hey Seinfeld the procreate line was a joke - but I do believe that if a kid is scheduled to graduate in 2015 then he should be playing on a 2015 team regardless of age - if you go by birth dates what would you do with a rising 10th grader that is too old to play u15? also do you think a college assistant coach/recruiter want to go to a U15 summer game with rising freshman,Sophomore and Juniors playing or do you think he wants to go to a 2015 tournament where all the kids in the game are rising Sophomore so he knows what he is watching and recruiting

Not sure what to make of the whole Sienfeld reference, but let me try to explain this for you Costanza. If we went by age from the time the kids were little, your 2015 wouldnt't be to old! Isn't that kind of the point? That's why all these people hold their kid back so they can get their older kid classified in a younger grade. So they can exploit the physical advantage that comes with it. Oh wait, I forgot there's no advantage.

In High School grade based simply makes more sense. This thread is about 6th grade lacrosse. At this level of lacrosse development, age based palying requirements will provide a safer environment for learning. A child born in 1998 should be playing against boys his own age and not against pre-pubescent 11 year olds.

The Jesters have a 6th grade boy who I have been told is the correct age and not held back, he looks to be close to 6 feet tall my son is an average size 6th grader and about 4' 8" - for safety reason do we not allow the 6th grader to play with the smaller but same age kids? what about a very small 7th grader that is too small to play against other 7th grade kids is it OK to play down for safety reasons? I think there are always going to be huge height and weight gaps for kids born within a year anyway so keeping it too grade based seems the best to me. regardless of size I want my 6th grader playing against 6th graders not older 5th graders and next year in middle school they are all going to have to play against each other anyway.

Why is going by age such a tough concept? It's done in every sport, except Lacrosse!! Just because a kids big, doesn't mean he is physcially more mature, he may have a 7ft father. It's about physical maturity. When your a year and half or two years older than the other kids (regardless of hieght) it's an advantage. Things like muscle developement, motor skill, hand eye, speed, lateral movement, all generally get better as a child gets OLDER!!! That's the point! You can't dispute it, it's just basic Physiology. It's no big deal, it's just fact and reality.

the age people and the grade people will have have to agree to disagree, I like the idea of kids that will be playing with and against each other in school also play together in the summer. no system will ever be totally fair but grade based teams make the most sense to me

any score on the LIE - Team LI game today

I believe in the whole concept of age based teams, but if it is done for safety reasons, than there can be no complaints that a great team should play UP and not slaughter their peer teams in the division. Many teams play up because they are better than their average peers, but if we are calling this a safety decision to not let kids play grade based- than playing up should be ruled out for the same reasons- safety.

I do see a HUGE difference in my boys from 6th, 7th and 8th grade- but I also saw how their teams needed to play up for the correct competition. I am not sure what the answer would be there.

I also want to point out there are many kids held back because of social, emotional or academic issues- and I believe they should be allowed to play with their friends until 6th-7th grade. Nothing like a kid with little self confidence not wanting to try a sport because he will have to play with kids he does not know from an older grade.

LIE won by more than a few. Sloppy game in the rain for both teams.

A Rec league will set its own rules for eligibility. It is the responsibility of teams to follow the rules regardless of opinions about age vs. grade

In an age based league/tournament - ALL players must be age eligible regardless of the grade of the players

In a grade based league/tournament - ALL players must be grade eligible regardless of the age of the players

If a team has one player who is ineligible according to the rules they are cheating.

If a team moves up in division because of this one player, they are not "playing up" they are playing by the rules

It would be great to see the 2018 LI travel teams play each other over the next couple of months. With the exception of Looney's, the top Maryland 2018 teams play each other all the time. They post their results for all to see on the NPYLL web site, and as far as you can tell, no club has collapsed because they lost a game to another club in Maryland - they all seem to be doing just fine. Long Island teams should be doing the same thing with this age group, and it might start if people/parents stopped trashing a rival organization.

Agreed. High level youth baseball and basketball require coaches to bring the roster and the birth certificates to the big tournaments - lacrosse will need to do the same. US Lacrosse is trying to align grade with age by having a birthdate cut-off of August 31, which is a good idea. if you are born September, 1999 (or later) you are a 6th grader for school (public school in NY) and a 12 yr old (2018) for purposes of Summer travel lacrosse. So sept/oct/nov/dec 99's aren't 'cheating' by being in 6th grade or playing 2018...they're just on the older side, but legal for both.

FYI Public school cut off in NYS is Dec 1. Not September 1. For the record, I don't think anyone cares about the kids born sept - nov, close enough. Its the crazy parents who have a kid born in March, April or May and hold them back. Thats when you get a kid that is 18 - 20 months older than the younger oct nov kids in the same grade. I totally agree with birth certificates, has to happen.

It will NEVER EVER happen without US Lacrosse stepping in and becoming the governing body it is supposed to be. It will then pass down mandates to the Member Clubs. BTW - they should make it absolutely mandatory - that ALL CLUBS AND PLAYERS be registered. Get the insurance companies involved, and they can require registration with US Lacrosse to process any claims. US Lacrosse has to step up or the sport will be worse for it in the long run.

ok, i'll admit upfront it's a slow day, and I made a couple of calls. it turns out that NYS has no fixed birthdate requirements - it's up to the individual school district..so ours is 12/1/99 to 12/1/00 for 6th grade, but the next town over is 11/30/99 to 11/30/00. no wonder people get angry about '99's' in this age group - what's incorrect in their district may be fine somewhere else. i agree the much bigger problem is the playing down, particularly now as 7th and 8th grade boys are hitting puberty.

I suggest email them. I did last week. Its ridiculous that its gonna get to the point that more and more kids are going to get hurt. info@uslacrosse.org - masses speak volumes.

totally agree. lacrosse tournaments don't police age requirements because noone is making them do so. either US Lacrosse steps up and enforces it, or someone's going to get hurt by an older boy/team 'playing down' and it will take the resulting law suit to scare tournament and league directors to do the right thing.

The resulting lawsuits will happen, however most Tournaments think they have it covered by making individuals sign waivers. Waivers are only and I repeat ONLY LEGALLY BINDING when all parties abide by the rule stippulated in the waiver. If tournament directors think that they are safe from legal trouble because the players signed waivers the are in for very rude awakenings.

Agreed, waivers signed by partipants will only protect the tournament operators if all rules are followed by the participants and the rules are enforced by the operator.

Anybody know anything about RECON?

weekend results anyone?

At Lehigh the 91 5th,6st,7th and 8th grade teams all won in their respective Brackets. 7th grade 91 group defeated a surprisingly strong Pride group made up of mostly 8th graders with a sprinkling of players from other grades (7 and 9 ).The 5th and 8th grade teams defeated the team named Victor who placed 4 teams in the finals but came up short in all. The surprise of the Tournament was the Turtles being upset by the aforementioned Victor 8th grade team.

The 91 6st grade team rolled to another Tournament win, while their Coach was sunning in Maui. Tells you if the team has talent,and is prepared during practices anyone can coach them during games great Job George

That was no surprise!

It was to Them

I mentioned that Pride team on another thread and people did not agree that they were strong- that 8th grade team is stacked with solid, strong players. I was surprised when i saw them play. I do not have a kid on this team either- but no one ever mentions them. They are up there with some good teams. I look forward to seeing them play some of the bigger teams and hearing how they did.

My son just joined his first rravel team, do you think its fair to ask the coachs upfront on day one that at the end you would like to know what he needs to work on to improve skillset? Thanks

You should not have to even ask this question. A post-season evaluation or conversation should be held with each player and parent combination to take a look at what improvements have been seen and areas targeted for additional improvements. This type of post-season report card can go a long way in allowing the player/parent to know how they are doing within the overall team.

Since every coach is different, expecting this to happen without prompting might not take place. So, you are best advised to ask for that post-season report as early as possible, particularly if this team is filled with newcomers.

great question and finally we get what this board should be - asking questions from the community and getting back hopefully useful information. my son gets year end evaluation from his hockey organization every year but I have never seen it in lacrosse - it would be a fantastic learning tool and I am going to recommend it to his lacrosse team

They were surprisingly strong because as the first post said they had older players. One of the 91 players goes to Kellenberg 7th grade and recognized one of the Pride players as a sophmore at the High School.

Cage Sage - Thank you, I would agree. I asked the question as my sons ultimate goal is to improve and since I never played the game of lacrosse I wanted know if I was " out of line by asking the question". I dont care If the teams win or lose. I just want him to learn and get better and more important enjoy the game. This board is very help to the lax novice.