BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016

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is it really necessary to post this three times?

2021 wolves beat everyone they played in Long Island and the tri-state region except 91 and Igloo. They had 2 bad games early in Maryland but besides that beat everyone they played. Also won 4 tournaments along the way. But have fun trying to yell and scream about their decline if it makes you happy.


This has to be a joke ? Pot stir at its best., what teams alone here in long island have they beat ? What about in Maryland ? How about if they are top 3 in region then why are they not lined up to play in Denver ??


quote=Anonymous]Interesting comment but not honest. Their 2023 team is top 2 in the age group. Younger than that is irrelevant at this point. 2021 is arguably top 3 in the region. Not sure where 2022 stacks up. But agree, this will be an important and fun year for all 2021 teams.


]Express is on the decline. It started at this age group. Express always had top teams and starting with 2021 and younger the teams get weaker. There are no AA teams for Express from 2021 and younger. Express Wolves can't competr with the reputation and success of Express older teams. The best proof of Express decline was shown on the tryouts thread on BOTC where the Express thread had less then one thousand views. They took that tread down but many teams had more views than Express. So it was no Surprise that they had low tryout numbers. As for the 2021 B team it appears everyone made it and if anyone was cut it was not many. This will mean a weaker A team who was already having trouble last year beating teams that in the past they crushed. I hope it works out for them but it seems the word is out and people are keeping away from this team. This is a big year for Express. It can't be business as usual. They have to play all the kids on both teams and keep the roster sizes low and not add players as the year goes on. I hope they do the right thing this year. [/quote] [/quote] [/quote]

is it really necessary to post this three times? [/quote]

It's amazing that people will play and pay to be on a third team instead of someone's A team. The A team gets all the attention. The grass is not always greener

Is the top team in this age group the Igloo's ? 91 ? Express ? Icon ? Why not just got them all on the field together and figure it out

can't, quest is Denver, not going to see this group play each other a whole lot.

Are Igloo 2021 tryout results out yet? How are parents notified?

For those who feel you who think your kid must be on the best team read this article. There is so much research out there that teaches us that being on the best team is not good for developing young players. This article is one of many but it does not even get into how kids sit on the bench or on the grass at practice on these best teams. Top players get hurt in development on top teams too. They are not challenged enough. I guess that is why we are now seeing these top teams on Long Island cutting kids who have been with the program for years and replacing them with kids that were developed at other much weaker programs. Sad thing is many of these kids that have been cut from the top teams can't make another " A" team and land on a "B" team. In any event this is an interesting read.

by Trevor Tierney NCAA Assistant Coach University of Denver
THE "BEST TEAM" MAY NOT BE WHAT IS BEST FOR OUR KIDS

“And why do we fall, Bruce? So we can learn to pick ourselves up.” - Batman Begins

Don’t get me wrong here. I love all of the players, parents and families that I get to work with in sports. I would not want to be doing anything else with my life! But lately, I have been bewildered by a phenomena that seems to be growing in youth athletics. There is a constant search amongst parents and players to be on the “best team” that wins the most games and tournaments. It is no longer enough for our children to play on a local youth or high school team and enjoy the experience of playing sports. Furthermore, it is no longer even enough for our children to play on a good club travel team that plays well together, is competitive with other great teams from around the country and has top-notch coaching. Rather, there is a “grass is greener” mentality amongst parents and young athletes who are on the constant lookout for the absolute greatest team to be a part of.

There are a lot of factors driving all of this. It is partly due to the parent’s misconception that the better their child’s team, the better their chances for recruitment and success down the road (by the way, college coaches do not even know the scores of the high school games that they are scouting—they only notice who is 6’4”, 225 and runs like a gazelle in the Serengeti). I believe that this mentality runs deeper than that though and we have simply lost touch of what sports are all about. You know when you watch the people on a reality show like Honey Boo Boo or Swamp People and you say, “man…those people are nuts!”? Well, I hate to tell you, that is all of us in sports right now! We are those crazy people. And for the past few years, this perception of making sure our children win all the time and at all costs has become utterly mind-boggling. Every single game in sports, one team wins and one team loses. That’s just the way it works. It is completely narcissistic for us to think that we ourselves (or our child) should never lose. What fun would sports be if we knew that we were going to win every time anyway?

Every great athlete and coach that I know has had their fair share of ups and downs. Even though my claim to lacrosse fame is that I won two NCAA National Championships, a MLL Championship and a FIL World Championship with Team USA, I also got my butt kicked a whole lot along the way! My youth teams were disgraceful, my high school team had some serious rough patches, I can’t even count how many goals Syracuse scored on me at Princeton over the years and I was on the only USA team that lost in the World Championships since 1978 for goodness sake! Even Michael Jordan (who I apologize for even mentioning in the same paragraph as my athletic career) admitted in a commercial, “I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.” The point is, that no matter what an athlete does in their career, they will have some wins and they will have some losses. Trying to control that is not going to change anything. Furthermore, there is actually something about the pursuit of always winning that is detrimental to our children’s development as athletes and as people.

As I have pondered this mindset that we are witnessing in youth sports for the past few years, I knew something was wrong. I just didn’t know how to explain it, other than sounding like a grumpy old curmudgeon. The fact is though, there is scientific evidence that shows that we should actually want our children to lose! Again, as I have written time and again, I am not saying that athletes should not care about trying to win and just act like it does not matter. And I am certainly not an advocate for the “everyone gets a trophy” mentality. Our young athletes should care deeply about trying to win and be their best. And when they go into competition and want nothing more than to win that game, it will be absolutely fantastic for them when they lose! Before you think I have been hit in the head with too many lacrosse balls (which is completely factual), let me explain further.

In the past month, I have been fortunate enough to study under one of our country’s leading researchers on human resilience at Harvard, Dr. Shelly Carson. As soon as I sat in our first lecture, the lightbulb flashed on! I started to realize that when we want our child to play on the most dominant team, we are completely missing the boat on how sports build resilience for young men and women. This is not just me blabbing about it either. There is decades of research being compiled by people much smarter than me (surprising I know) that explains how we all develop resilience and how this leads to overall happiness, well-being and success. And isn’t that what we really want for our children?

I am starting to understand how sports are actually the perfect set up for resilience training as losses are very stressful and a challenging adversity for young athletes to face. From this perspective, you realize that no one is going to die, get seriously injured, get cancer, lose a family member, get dumped by their girlfriend (and if so, good riddance I say), lose their home, get thrown in jail, fail out of school, or face anything truly tragic from losing a game. And while I might be sounding trite here, the sad fact is that all of us will face one or several of these things at some point in our life. Nobody’s existence on this earth is perfect. We all encounter some serious adversity whether we like it or not. With that being the case, don’t we want our kids to learn how to deal with it in a skillful manner?

In the field of psychology, resiliency has been defined by Luthar (2000) as, “the ability to recover from or adjust easily to misfortune or change . . . a positive adaptation within the context of significant adversity,” (as cited in Carson lecture, 2014). So, not only do the skills of resiliency allow people to overcome and recover from tragic experiences in their lives, but resilient people also flourish, grow and experience tremendous well-being and success in their lives. And that is exactly what we want for our children. I will take that over any win, any tournament championship and any trophy. The best aspect of athletics, in my mind, is that it teaches us resiliency, the ability to endure, overcome and find greatness in our lives. As coaches and parents, all we have to do is be positive and supportive of our children no matter if they win or lose. We just have to be there for them as they learn to get back up and keep moving on with their heads held high. That is how our youth can learn to deal with life on life’s terms and develop as strong individuals. What a great gift that is to bring our children and I cannot think of a more powerful way to do it than through athletics!

There are a lot of ways in which resiliency can be taught through sports, which I will go into some more detail down the road. For right now, I will pass along that one of the most effective ways in handling a stressor is utilizing "problem-focused coping", which means taking an active approach towards finding a solution. In summation, I will pass along what I tell my players and parents on our Denver Elite lacrosse teams. Instead of finding a better team to play on, find a way to make your team better. This is how you can truly learn to win something of lasting value through the sports.

It's my fourth kid best kids on top teams go D1. Take your loser kid bs some place else

I don't think you understand the article. It is hard to understand what you are trying to say. I don't think the meaning of the article is best players on top teams won't play D1. Try to read it again. I'm sure top players on top teams do play D1 but if they played for the second or third or even fifth best team would they have developed more and played for a better D1 school? What about the bottom players on top teams? Seems they are getting cut and having trouble finding a team. The top 2021 Long Island team wins most games by five to ten goals. It is not changing. If the 8th best team on Long Island played in the B tournaments they would win all games by 5 to 10 goals too. We would all aggree winning games by a lot would teach the kids nothing and they would never loose and never have to pick up and learn from a loss. Same thing happens when the best team destroys everyone. The kids on the team get nothing from that. Very interesting article and makes you think is it better to be on a dream team that is undefeated in most tournaments or a top team who plays close games in the A tournaments. Seems the science points to keeping away from the top team and playing on the second or even fifth best team.

Missing the point genius. They'll maybe go D1 but be failures at life and probably end up coaching summer teams and running clinics for the rest of their lives because they never learned really how to achieve in life.

I'm a 2021 travel coach. The parents of my team appreciate the fact we challenge ourselves against superior competition. We still get some of those late-afternoon championship photos when we play well, but that's because we take our losses and learn from them most of the year.

OMG, work ethic carries over to anything you want
To do in life, my kid is on top team, but not on top line,
So he known if he wants to play more next summer he has to work hard.
We been out ever day shooting. I other three are doing very well, sorry just accept your
Kid is not a top kid, and stop bashing the kids that work hard.

There is a history of Long Islands top 2021 team players leaving the organization or getting cut and only being able to find a spot on a B team. This could be a combination of not playing many close games over the years and those kids not getting a lot of playing time. Either one alone would stop kids from getting better but both together is deadly to a kids development. This team chooses to keep playing and destroying 2021 teams to advance the reputation of the organization at the expense of the kids. They can easily play up against 2020 Legacy and Crush and challenge these kids but instead travel long distances to play teams they know they will beat. Parents on any team should determan if their kid has developed like they should on the same team over the year or years. If not it may be time for a change.

If your kid is not on the top line he is not a top player. Almost any kid who plays on the top five teams can make this team as a back up. Hope it works better for you than others who went through this program.

quote=Anonymous]OMG, work ethic carries over to anything you want
To do in life, my kid is on top team, but not on top line,
So he known if he wants to play more next summer he has to work hard.
We been out ever day shooting. I other three are doing very well, sorry just accept your
Kid is not a top kid, and stop bashing the kids that work hard.
[/quote]

Are you joking dad crush or legacy 2020 would destroy your 2021 team. Not only that but some of your kids might not want to play lax anymore when you are peeling them and carrying them off the field. You might compete at 2021 but playing a year up is a different animal at this age puberty has hit and kids don't play nice anymore.

2021 igloo had trouble with 2020 Vipers. They had trouble with other 2020 B teams too. They should play up. They may not win them all but will be challenged. Crush did it and got better. Igloo won't.

Add legacy 2021 to the mix of top 5.

Based on what? Sounds to me all the teams have improved so unless you have played the top the top you stay where you are.

Just what was said have no idea if it is true but heard Team Long Island and Legacy lost a lot of players. Could anyone confirm this?

Other than Igloo 2021, what other 2021 teams played 2020 teams this past summer. 91, Express, icon, Legacy????

Do you ever read back what you write? Defending your middle school age kid's summer lax team like it's the most important thing in the world. So juvenile and outright asinine. Making up for your own shortcomings through your kid?

I hate to drag these teams into this conversation but 91 and Outlaws did.

Any legitimate 2021 team that played igloo "black ice" this past summer played up because "black ice" had young men who had completed 7th grade playing in 6th grade tournaments.

Lucky Legacy makes top 10, lol

Your kidding right ? They 1st 8 of their top 10 players to ninet one orange and igloo avalanche. Lucky if that Blue knights team wins a few games.

O PLEASE

Admit what everybody already knows you have kids on that 7th grade igloo team that are in 8th grade. It is a fact!! Playing against younger kids. I'm not impressed by that!!!

One 8th grade kid left this year to play in the proper grade another went to Avalanche. They are still looking to replace the one that left. He was a big part of the team. The team will take a step back with that one loss.

Igloo has cleaned up their act parting ways with the '20 kids on their team--who by the way had trouble making '20 "A" teams until Daddy called and whined/pleaded with the organization to take his son after he had not made the team. Enjoy the sideline...

Admit what everybody else knows... Your rant on this board is a waste of time. Spend your time and efforts writing to the U.S. Lacrosse board. Maybe that will make a difference. This is just a waste of everyone's time. Every single team has a degree of older boys /hold backs etc. you want to make a change go where it matters.

Why are people saying 2021 teams should "play up"?

First, many did in Hogan's U13A divisions this past year, probably due to the fact that most top teams have kids that don't mean the 9/1 cutoff. Or other U13 divisions. And did well.

Second, there were a ton of close games among 2021 teams this year. There seem to be 10-15 AA teams that can all give each other a good game. 2021 seems fortunate that way.

Third, playing up sounds good until someone gets hurt or a concussion. At the 2021 level, many of the kids are still . . . kids. While at 2020, many kids have hit puberty.

Fourth, be careful what you wish for. Isn't next June when all the Md private school kids decide to reclass and repeat 8th grade? I think it's ridiculous for a kid to finish 8th grade next Spring and drop down to 2021 - and tournaments should NOT allow - but you know some teams will do it. This Fall and next Spring may be the last time you get to play against teams without holdbacks (although you'll still play teams with a lot of summer bdays). Enjoy it while you can.

Wow, is that true.

AA should be proud....How will they go to Denver this year..Leave those kids behind???

If any kid on any team is not playing half the games playing time or more that kid is not a top player and probably does not belong on the team. The only reason why a parent would keep a kid on a top team if the kid is playing less than half the game is for parent ego. The kids that sit on the bench during the game will sit on the grass during practice. Directors of programs love kids that are willing to sit on the bench. Those kids are harder to find than good players. They pay the full fee to sit on the bench and accept it. Although better kids tryout it is difficult to take that better player because directors don't want to risk the new kid not being happy and leave the next year or cause trouble. So they keep the kid who is willing to sit on the bench and say nothing about it. After all, those bench players never play meaningful minutes on top teams anyway so the outcome of games won't be changed by these bench players. So the coach keeps the kids who accept this role and are happy with it rather than taking a better new player who may leave the next year or cause trouble during the year. Those parents who allow a kid to sit on the bench for more than half the game on a top team and think that good for development are usually the parents that think the team a kid plays for matters when colleges scout players. Again it does not matter which team a kid plays for if he is a top player he will be discovered. Also it can't be fun siting on the bench. If it is not fun eventually the kid will quit or not reach his potential.

Anyone know when the World Series Qualifying Tournaments will be played for each Region? Site just says April/May. For Northeast Region - anyone want to go out on a limb and predict the 4 that qualify? Mid-Atlantic?

NE:
Igloo
ICON
91
Express

Mid-Atlantic:
Crabs
Bethesda
Hawks
Rising Sons - if they are together still

Was Mad Dog West an all-star team or a regional team? World Series requires it be a regional team with players within 100 miles.

I expect Greene Turtle and Koopers would be competitive from the Mid-Atlantic. Did Bethesda lose players from 2014 (when they seemed like the top U11 team not named Igloo)?

SONS 2021 IS DONE

Koopers from Maryland will be there. Hopkins coach twin boys on that team. Will probably get a LI beatdown!

How many of these teams will make the trip even if they do qualify is the real question?
91 and Igloo
don't see icon make trip or express

Of course they would attend. That's not even a question. Try telling your son, "you made it to the WS of lax and could be on TV, BUT naaah, we won't go".