BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM 2015 NPYLL Score and Results

so Basketball is the gold standard for youth sports?[/quote]

No, but don't act like lacrosse is the only sport where kids don't play other kids that are their own age.

The Little League World Series is for kids 11-13. Just how in the world can those 13 year olds be allowed to play against 11 year olds? Such a travesty [/quote]

when you follow the U model it isn't an issue..u11, u13, u15. everybody does it the same, but to use kids that are older and should be a grade higher for graduation year teams is wrong. it is a travesty that parents allow their kids to play against younger players, why not put gloves on your kids and have them box kids two years younger! Parents that entertain this have no integrity and are teaching their kids that rules and guidelines don't matter, you can buy your way out of anything!

No, but don't act like lacrosse is the only sport where kids don't play other kids that are their own age.

The Little League World Series is for kids 11-13. Just how in the world can those 13 year olds be allowed to play against 11 year olds? Such a travesty [/quote]

Let's follow your sarcastic point. It is fine to have 11 year olds play 13 year olds if that is the rule (and by comparison that is what the old U-9, U-11, U-13 etc... lacrosse rules anticipated). What is not so fine and what you are purposely trying to fudge up is what the age based standard (really no standard) has brought about age spreads of three and sometimes four years with no ability to enforce any rule since all players are theoretically in the same grade (after being held back (excuse me... reclassified)) and worse, no way to even prove what grade a player is in. [/quote]

Explain to me how there can be a four year spread with grade based teams?

No, but don't act like lacrosse is the only sport where kids don't play other kids that are their own age.

The Little League World Series is for kids 11-13. Just how in the world can those 13 year olds be allowed to play against 11 year olds? Such a travesty [/quote]

when you follow the U model it isn't an issue..u11, u13, u15. everybody does it the same, but to use kids that are older and should be a grade higher for graduation year teams is wrong. it is a travesty that parents allow their kids to play against younger players, why not put gloves on your kids and have them box kids two years younger! Parents that entertain this have no integrity and are teaching their kids that rules and guidelines don't matter, you can buy your way out of anything! [/quote]

Ok, so what's the difference between the U model and a holdback playing down a grade? Either way, it's a two year spread.

These are all just excuses

Let's follow your sarcastic point. It is fine to have 11 year olds play 13 year olds if that is the rule (and by comparison that is what the old U-9, U-11, U-13 etc... lacrosse rules anticipated). What is not so fine and what you are purposely trying to fudge up is what the age based standard (really no standard) has brought about age spreads of three and sometimes four years with no ability to enforce any rule since all players are theoretically in the same grade (after being held back (excuse me... reclassified)) and worse, no way to even prove what grade a player is in. [/quote]

Explain to me how there can be a four year spread with grade based teams? [/quote]

Your question proves the point. There should not be any possibility to have a four year age spread with grade based teams, but that assumes that (a) every player is in the same grade (and there no way to verify this except for the word of the coach and/or the parent), and (b) you do not have players being held back multiple years, or being held back a year and then playing down another year on the basis of a future "PG" year (and yes that happens). Add into the mix players playing "up".

Biff here, my son was shaving in the 5th grade also. The deal that Muffy and I made with him was once he got in the 6th grade and could drive himself to Crabs practice, he could stop on the way home and pick up a pack of razors. We felt it gave him a goal to strive for, of course me and the Mrs. paid for the razors.

when you follow the U model it isn't an issue..u11, u13, u15. everybody does it the same, but to use kids that are older and should be a grade higher for graduation year teams is wrong. it is a travesty that parents allow their kids to play against younger players, why not put gloves on your kids and have them box kids two years younger! Parents that entertain this have no integrity and are teaching their kids that rules and guidelines don't matter, you can buy your way out of anything! [/quote]

Ok, so what's the difference between the U model and a holdback playing down a grade? Either way, it's a two year spread.

These are all just excuses [/quote]

the difference is the rules allow kids play two years at a time, allowing more than one team per age group. normally the top team is the older team and more physically mature and the younger team not quite so. grade based should have hard birthdates that are enforced. a group of 7th graders should have kids on the team who should be in 8th or 9th grade, it simply isn't fair.

parents who condone this are just attempting to relive their youth through their children. putting 15 yr old johnny on the field with 13 year olds. its a joke as is anybody who supports this!

grade based should have hard birthdates that are enforced.

ummmm.....wouldn't that make them age based instead of grade based

Most people naturally assume/expect that kids in the same grade are (relatively) the same age. Others, unconstrained by ethics and a sense of what's right, saw the "opportunity" and have exploited it to the detriment of the rest of us.

LOL. Why yes. That would make it U13, U11, etc. And everybody bitched about that. Apparently our society has gotten to the point that it is a social injustice for an 13 yr old to play a sport against some 15 yr olds. It seems the only acceptable solution to some of these parents is for kids to only play other kids their age. Funny, that's the way it always was and everything was fine. Holdbacks probably make up less than 5% of the lacrosse playing population. This is all so stupid.

As Felix Unger once said in court, "you know what happens when you assume"

No, it is a legitimate safety issue for 13 year olds to play 15 year olds in a sport that sometimes includes intense physical contact, which is why sports like football and hockey have taken steps to correct.

Glad it is not an issue in your neighborhood but it certainly is for parents who have to watch their kids take the field against team who, almost to a man, are 6" taller and 30-40 lbs heavier, hope you never have to experience that.

5%.....please. The 2019 Crabs were 75-80% holdbacks during this past NYPLL season. Again. I am not crying about it, I welcome the challenge for my son. But don't let the facts get in the way of the truth.

hold backs make up much more than 5%, stop making up arbitrary number to inflate your ego. most Crabs teams starting players are hold backs or kids that went to pre-first..sometimes both.

Way more than 5% for sure! It's an embarrassment and a desperate move to hold back kids for lax. If a kid is worth their weight, have them play up and really get noticed. Get your kid an early verbal, and then watch them level out as the rest of the kids pass puberty and pass your holdback by. Desperate move for attention and recognition. Play up, not down!

[quote=Anonymous]5%.....please. The 2019 Crabs were 75-80% holdbacks during this past NYPLL season. Again. I am not crying about it, I welcome the challenge for my son. But don't let the facts get in the way of the truth. [/quote

Ok. So there are 10 holdbacs on Crabs 2019. What percentage of all 2019 lacrosse players is that? Are you trying to argue that it's more than 5%?

That's funny. The pop warner nationals have divisions for 10-12 and 12-15. I just can't imagine how they aren't killing each other. Jesus this a ridiculous argument. When did it become a requirement that 12 year olds could only play against 12 year olds? in our crazy PC coddling society I guess. God forbid little jimmy had to play against someone 30 lbs bigger than him. It's a much better lesson that we can arrange it that you will only ever compete against kids the exact same size as you. Good luck in life. My kids are all on age. It's good for them to play bigger kids from time to time.

Great job creating a straw man and then flogging it.

No one is advocating that 12 year olds can only play 12 year olds. I am glad your kids are on age (so is mine). Just as your kids play bigger kids, so does mine. Hurray for you.

What I do get tired of is when my son and his team (all on age and all pretty good sized boys) go to Maryland and are consistently playing teams on which not some, but all of the players are several years older, 4 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier. I guess 12 and 13 year old boys in the 7th grade are just bigger in Maryland.

The issue (and it is an issue) is the farce that the Club teams are creating by first insisting on grade based teams and then manipulating the rules so that grade level means nothing and all that counts is playing entire teams down.

I am all for a challenge, but when the game is rigged, it is annoying.

If that is the rules of age than EVERYONE will get their day in the sun to be the oldest. With your grade base teams only the select and chosen ones( holdbacks/reclassify/pre-first) get to be the oldest. You are a apologist for the select few that get to game the system. Goes against everything that is taught in youth sports..and everything the MIAA and other private schools preach constantly..Character, Character..

Dont understand all this AAU BB horror stories. Front page of AAU Basketball clearly says that they go by age at youth level???

Great job creating a straw man and then flogging it.

No one is advocating that 12 year olds can only play 12 year olds. I am glad your kids are on age (so is mine). Just as your kids play bigger kids, so does mine. Hurray for you.

What I do get tired of is when my son and his team (all on age and all pretty good sized boys) go to Maryland and are consistently playing teams on which not some, but all of the players are several years older, 4 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier. I guess 12 and 13 year old boys in the 7th grade are just bigger in Maryland.

The issue (and it is an issue) is the farce that the Club teams are creating by first insisting on grade based teams and then manipulating the rules so that grade level means nothing and all that counts is playing entire teams down.

I am all for a challenge, but when the game is rigged, it is annoying.

Than stay home, PLEASE

And they validate those ages. Probably just another holdback parent throwing nonsense out to try to support what they are doing.

They go by age AND weight in Pop Warner. Specifically,, to avoid the large size differences . Let's hope your kid never has a major life changing injury due to the selfishness of those trying to manipulate the system for their own kids benefit. Risks are always there and yes there are some kids big for their age, but to field a team with a significant number of holdbacks is negligent, unsportsmanlike and jus wrong on multiple levels. If you can not see or understand how that is the problem with society and not coddling when folks start putting others at risk for their own gain then I do feel for you and yours. .

Spoken like a true tough guy who wants an advantage for him but not the rest. How about this tough guy play up and see how it feels..Oh that might be a disadvantage to you. Too funny

Spoken like a true tough guy who wants an advantage for him but not the rest. How about this tough guy play up and see how it feels..Oh that might be a disadvantage to you. Too funny

What's funny NY tough guy is your blood boiling.....its OK Ryan will take your money. Just wipe the hair grease off it first

Yup. He's a rough tough guy and his son is too. You should see his son, a real tough stud. So tough that Dad has held back his son once and his son is going to do a PG year (really he is) and for that reason he is playing on a seventh grade team when his peers are playing on an 8th or 9th grade team (except they are not, they are all playing down with his son because they were held back too and are all going to do a PG year). Why his son is so good he can run over kids two and three years younger and 40 pounds lighter at will. Damn his son is good and so is he for gaming the system. Anyone who challenges him is a chump for not taking advantage of the rules.

My kid is young for his age and average size. He goes to a public school with a lacrosse pedigree that is ... uhhh... developing. He doesn't seem to mind competing against guys that are more physically mature and older than him during the club season. He plays with and against some great players. To each his own. If you rant and whine your kid will model your victim behavior. It all weighs out in the end... chill out.

Oh yeah ... go NPYLL!

Let's see if you and he feel the same way after a few concussions or other life changing injuries because he is playing against teams that are comprised of holdbacks who do not give a hoot about your son and others in pursuit of their own tainted wins. There are enough large kids for their age that the boys can test their bravado but should not be subject to teams full of holdbacks. So it is victim behavior to be on the receiving end of behavior that is cheating and manipulating? Would rather teach my son to stand up for what is right rather than go along with the crowd because everyone is doing it.

wa wa wa

Good by NPYLL

Huh?

What is that supposed to mean..is a new league replacing NPYLL

Wawa has good hoagies!

The new kiosk to order them sucks

You do need a 8th grade education to operate them. Maybe you should just get your kid to order for you.

Thanx. I knew this forum was good for something other than complaining about re-class kids and everyone's superstar D1 athletes. Woo Hoo. Hogies on me.

Anyone know the back story about why the NPYLL has folded? Something to do with a DC club pulling all their teams and killing it?

shocked that club owners weren't able to get along well enough to run a league.

This is a guess. Some of the NYPLL clubs have trouble fielding AA quality teams at all age groups. The Hoco league has a wider variance of teams AA,A,B etc. So if you have a rockstar 2021 team you can put them in AA, But you can barely field 2022 - you can put them in B. Also Howard Co Rec does everything - supplies fields, refs, runs score board. Games are centrally located for Balt, Annapolis and DC teams. Much less work to participate in Hoco for directors and coaches. Overall this is a good thing as there should now be enough AA teams to have 3 divisions in each grade - AA, A & B. They key will be if team that are AA or A but not quite strong enough to win AA title sandbag into A or B to get a trophy.

The Cannons and Madlax pulled out and that collapsed it.