BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Looney's Boys Lacrosse

that is what guidelines are for, to determine the proper age group kids with. you don't have to agree with them, but they are there for a reason. the kid is a great 2019 goalie, where he should be playing, and even better as a 2020!

So now we've gotten to the point that if a 7th grader is 13 this summer(as most 7th graders are) that is not acceptable either? Maybe we should break the year down into quarters and you can only let little Timmy play against kids born in the same 3 month span as he was. Good grief.

[quote=Anonymous]4 of the players on FCA 2019, the team that has wins (and losses) vs Madlax and 91 Orange and wins against LI Express N and Laxachusetts this year, are on-age rising 8th graders. These kids play and contribute significantly in every game. How many other good 2019 teams have kids playing up on them?

VLC apparently has several 7th graders playing up, they are a very, very good team(ask them, they won the Richmond Rumble). Due to the proliferation of 7th graders, they chose to play down during the NPYLL season. They(supposedly)are opting to play one tournament in the A division. Look out for the Baby Blue Crabs

FCA, a Christian organization, should lead be example. In their mission statement they state that integrity is part of their mission and vision. How does playing kids down support their mission and vision...unless their mission is to be crablike!

This amazing team only beat the Madlax 2019 Blue team. Which is the second team by 1 goal this last weekend. And if the storm had not come they would of played the next day for the championship on sunday. And they only Beat FreedomLax by one goal. You can take that for what its worth. Point being they scare no one unless they are playing in the B div.

The Christian part ends the sec. they hit the field.

FCA is fielding teams that are grade-based. The goalie just completed 7th grade making him a 2020 graduate. He has been playing on the 2019 team. He does sometimes play for in tournaments with the 2020 team. Exactly how is this in any way against any rules?

Go google fca 2019 and the first link and they indicate which players are 2020s

what grade does a late an August/2001 birthday go to...

just because parents opt to keep a late school year birthday child back a grade or go to pr-first doesn't mean they should also play sports with kids younger than them!

graduation year doesn't necessarily account for the actual age of a child. the private schools offer pre-first which allows a child to start school a year later and the private schools also allow children to stay back a grade. so, a 2020 graduate could be 18 months older than their peers if they attended private schools and took advantage of pre-first and opted to stay back/repeat a grade.

Ummm.....that was kinda my point

FCA- Future Calvert Athletes!!!!

Late August 2001 technically belongs going into 8th grade. You asked....

any holdbacks or late summer birthdays on the Looney's 2020 team?

born on or before August 31, 2001 should be rising 9th grade.

Isn't Calvert a grade school?

The reality is the cutoff date varies by state and individual schools. One of the biggest obstacles to improving the holdback issue are the 9/1 date purists who insist on a date that isn't inclusive of a lot of schools and a lot of families. If us lacrosse went with a grade based model with a 6/1 or 5/1 limit there would be much more buy in from families and clubs. With a pure age system there will be enough clubs opting out into grade based tournaments that there won't be any real improvement.

can't have a grade based model with a 5/1 or 6/1 limit, those kids would be in a grade above the others.

They have about 5 to 6 that are older.

can't have a grade based model with a 5/1 or 6/1 limit, those kids would be in a grade above the others.[/quote]

Depends on where they started school. For example, there are quite a few kids born in the summer of 2001 that are going into 8th grade (for the first time) and have never held back. Same for other grad years - the 5/1 or 6/1 cut off date would allow these kids but would filter out the hold backs. It level sets the grade based model without letting clubs manipulate the system because there is an age based requirement too. USLax proposal of going age based by one year increments is not going to garner much support as the grade based train has left the station but many grade based supporters would get on board if they suggest the grade with an age element.

Depends on where they started school. For example, there are quite a few kids born in the summer of 2001 that are going into 8th grade (for the first time) and have never held back. Same for other grad years - the 5/1 or 6/1 cut off date would allow these kids but would filter out the hold backs. It level sets the grade based model without letting clubs manipulate the system because there is an age based requirement too. USLax proposal of going age based by one year increments is not going to garner much support as the grade based train has left the station but many grade based supporters would get on board if they suggest the grade with an age element.[/quote]

I agree- I'd leave it 6/1 as three months is plenty of time for late starters but would keep the philosophy of grade based with the exception of NY. You'd absolutely have a mixed team as they have a 12/1 cut off- so you could feasibly have a 50/50 split of two grades. People would have to be okay with that as the age limit is what is static. In the end, I wish there would be a system like hockey- they don't care about your grade, just your age and many kids don't play with their friends from school, but isn't that what travel is all about? It's too ambitious of a model right now for lacrosse anyway. We probably won't even garner enough support for any cut off with the way things are right now. Seems like a 16 year old could play with 2021 and someone would find a reason why that is acceptable.

I agree- I'd leave it 6/1 as three months is plenty of time for late starters but would keep the philosophy of grade based with the exception of NY. You'd absolutely have a mixed team as they have a 12/1 cut off- so you could feasibly have a 50/50 split of two grades. People would have to be okay with that as the age limit is what is static. In the end, I wish there would be a system like hockey- they don't care about your grade, just your age and many kids don't play with their friends from school, but isn't that what travel is all about? It's too ambitious of a model right now for lacrosse anyway. We probably won't even garner enough support for any cut off with the way things are right now. Seems like a 16 year old could play with 2021 and someone would find a reason why that is acceptable. [/quote]
You might be pushing it with a 16 year old at 2021. I think we should go after any model that has a kid 18 months older then the youngest kid who is on age. If anyone has ever taken a picture of their kid on the first day of 6th grade and the last day of 8th grade should know that 18 month during this time frame is just nuts. Would you want your 6th grade son playing his 8th grade self in theory? This only makes sense to people with kids 8th grade and older. But this is the first battle we must fight, it must be no worse then 13 months of a age gap for middle school kids. No questions asked. The anger comes from people seeing 3 to 10 kids per team being 18 months older then the youngest kid on age for the grade. As an example this is why they have Freshman football teams. They are as a whole so much smaller in mind and body compared to the sophomores through seniors. I agree playing the bigger and older kids makes the younger ones better, but its still not fair. So it comes down to are youth sports fair or are they like real life and not fair?

You might be pushing it with a 16 year old at 2021. I think we should go after any model that has a kid 18 months older then the youngest kid who is on age. If anyone has ever taken a picture of their kid on the first day of 6th grade and the last day of 8th grade should know that 18 month during this time frame is just nuts. Would you want your 6th grade son playing his 8th grade self in theory? This only makes sense to people with kids 8th grade and older. But this is the first battle we must fight, it must be no worse then 13 months of a age gap for middle school kids. No questions asked. The anger comes from people seeing 3 to 10 kids per team being 18 months older then the youngest kid on age for the grade. As an example this is why they have Freshman football teams. They are as a whole so much smaller in mind and body compared to the sophomores through seniors. I agree playing the bigger and older kids makes the younger ones better, but its still not fair. So it comes down to are youth sports fair or are they like real life and not fair? [/quote]

Agree 100% with the age recommendation along with grade. Winning and losing is a good lesson in life and there will always be those who cheat but this is a safety issue especially in middle school where the size discrepancy exists. Have seen too many injuries when the older kids play younger kids.

I agree- I'd leave it 6/1 as three months is plenty of time for late starters but would keep the philosophy of grade based with the exception of NY. You'd absolutely have a mixed team as they have a 12/1 cut off- so you could feasibly have a 50/50 split of two grades. People would have to be okay with that as the age limit is what is static. In the end, I wish there would be a system like hockey- they don't care about your grade, just your age and many kids don't play with their friends from school, but isn't that what travel is all about? It's too ambitious of a model right now for lacrosse anyway. We probably won't even garner enough support for any cut off with the way things are right now. Seems like a 16 year old could play with 2021 and someone would find a reason why that is acceptable. [/quote]

I agree with everything you said except that a summer of 2001 birthday who is going into 8th grade was certainly held back, they were just held back before they started school.

I agree with everything you said except that a summer of 2001 birthday who is going into 8th grade was certainly held back, they were just held back before they started school. [/quote]

Not necessarily. Depends on the state they started school. US guidelines run anywhere from July to December for school entry requirements so if the plan is to account for different states entry requirements and keep teams grade level, then the date needs to be at least June 1.

Not necessarily. Depends on the state they started school. US guidelines run anywhere from July to December for school entry requirements so if the plan is to account for different states entry requirements and keep teams grade level, then the date needs to be at least June 1. [/quote]

The majority of states use September 1 as the cutoff.

What is the soccer cutoff?

I agree with everything you said except that a summer of 2001 birthday who is going into 8th grade was certainly held back, they were just held back before they started school. [/quote]

There it is folks, a new word for explaining things away, we now have that aren't holdbacks, they are simply Pre-Holdbacks, that solves the problem, i'm on hold with Webster's and Wikipedia right now, hoping to get it in before August 1st, so it wont be next yea. r

Majority yes, but not all. The goal is to gain support from a broad group to get behind a grad year/age restriction combination. That will never happen if it is not flexible enough to consider likely scenarios of summer birthdays who are legitimately not holdbacks.

As long as it says Grade ? must be from Date 1/01/?? to Date 12/31/?? There will always be someone mad.

your broad group will come from the majority of kids with birthdays between 9/1/?? - 8/31/??. This is the majority of school cutoffs, why change it to accommodate a few states?

There it is folks, a new word for explaining things away, we now have that aren't holdbacks, they are simply Pre-Holdbacks, that solves the problem, i'm on hold with Webster's and Wikipedia right now, hoping to get it in before August 1st, so it wont be next yea. r [/quote]

Both of my kids have Sept birthdays and I had both of them do an extra year of kindergarten. Does that mean that we are cheating the system because they are both on the old side for their grade? I had no idea that they would play sports once they were older. Contrast that with the boy that repeats 8th grade for lacrosse only (regardless of what his parents say). To me, those scenarios are completely different.

If they are a year older it means they are a year bigger and stronger and should be playing with kids their own age. Nobody is questioning your decision as a parent but they should not play sports with kids a full year younger - for the majority of the folks on these boards it is a safety issue especially in middle school.

Both of my kids have Sept birthdays and I had both of them do an extra year of kindergarten. Does that mean that we are cheating the system because they are both on the old side for their grade? I had no idea that they would play sports once they were older. Contrast that with the boy that repeats 8th grade for lacrosse only (regardless of what his parents say). To me, those scenarios are completely different. [/quote]

both scenarios are different, however, none of the kids should be eligible to play in grade base leagues since they are older than the rest of the kids.

If your kids are September birthday, what is the cutoff for school in your area? in Maryland a September birthday would make the child on the older side. A child born in September in MD and repeating kindergarten would in instances be almost two years older than the younger kids in their grade

You're right - Madlax Blue does suck, VLC definitely should have beaten them by 10. VLC is also playing in the A division at Younggunz, but Bmore haven't updated the website. But who cares? Either way, it'll be fun to watch Madlax get pounded on by all the "real" teams at that tourney...hahaha - grab the popcorn!

Uhhh ... yeah... my kid was born in Jul 2000 and will be a sophomore next year...

Both of my kids have Sept birthdays and I had both of them do an extra year of kindergarten. Does that mean that we are cheating the system because they are both on the old side for their grade? I had no idea that they would play sports once they were older. Contrast that with the boy that repeats 8th grade for lacrosse only (regardless of what his parents say). To me, those scenarios are completely different. [/quote]

so your kids were 7 when they did their 2nd kindergarten year?
if your school district has the typical sept 1 cut-off they would have been old for their grade w/o repeat. Or you in a dec cutoff like in NY where they would be young the first time around? If the former, what was the rationale at the time?

The schedules are up. VLC is in 'AA'. Play Big 4 HHH, FCA and C2C. Should be great games.

so your kids were 7 when they did their 2nd kindergarten year?
if your school district has the typical sept 1 cut-off they would have been old for their grade w/o repeat. Or you in a dec cutoff like in NY where they would be young the first time around? If the former, what was the rationale at the time? [/quote]

You would hope he is talking about a NY kid? If Md parent holding back a Sept birthday and complaining?? Wow!!.. MD Kid would be oldest by far (1-2 years)than any child in his grade.