BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Messages for US Lacrosse. Rules, Age Classification or etc.

Proof of age....Just like soccer. At least for 2nd-8th grades. And maybe implement a yellow/red card system for repeated roughness...

BRING BACK THE HORN!! For at least middle school and below. High School and club (all ages) I get it, but are we really trying to speed the game up in PAL or middle school?! Still trying to teach and get kids even time

Getting rid of the horn was the best thing ever. Is there a horn in youth hockey? No.

It's about kids running and changing on the fly. Horns almost killed the game.

BRING BACK THE HORN!! For at least middle school and below. High School and club (all ages) I get it, but are we really trying to speed the game up in PAL or middle school?! Still trying to teach and get kids even time

For girls youth, are they still allowing deputy? (goalie leaving the ball in the crease and a defender/middie going in and taking it?)

Yes

The reclassification in boys youth lacrosse is a major safety issue. Age restrictions for grade based teams need to be put in place. Having schools and clubs promote this practice is detrimental to the game.

This is all great stuff. The power that US Lacrosse has here is that by adopting age guidelines (one year at a time is critical) they form a new tournament/league system. I.E. US Lacrosee sanctioned vs not. That way, when participating in a US Lacrosse sanctioned event you know all kids kids are within the same age group.

Nassau County PAL does not allow a deputy, except at the 2nd grade level.

Suffolk County Girls Lacrosse does not allow a deputy at all.

After review of the rules it appears you are correct. However, I witnessed dozens of HS games where the goalie utilized the deputy on clears. Interesting.....

For girls'/women's lacrosse:

1) institute a shot clock to prevent the stall

2) better utilize the held flag so that there are fewer occurrences of a shot leading to a goal which is then called back and reset for a free position

3) allow only 6 players between the restraining line on draws until possession is gained by one team

4) keep track of player and team fouls better (refs or scorekeepers) so that more cards are issued for "repeated major fouls"

5) require scoring shooter to immediately drop their stick at all levels

6) require player ID cards with birthdate (issued by local USL chapters to make it more manageable)

After review of the rules it appears you are correct. However, I witnessed dozens of HS games where the goalie utilized the deputy on clears. Interesting.....

That's because the vast majority of girls refs have no idea what they're doing!

that's why us lacrosse MUST institute a foul progression count on the girls side that leads to ejection. Take it out of the refs hands. Constant hackers must be sent to the locker room otherwise helmets are coming!! If a girl foluls out once I bet it never happens again

If you think the game is slow now with the whistles wait till every foul has to be reported to the table like in a basketball game ... it will add 30 minutes to every game. the refs already have the ability to give a yellow card for multiple repetitive fouls. maybe that should be emphasized for next year.

AGE BASED TEAMS AT YOUTH LEVEL..What has happened to youth Lacrosse with the gaming the system for select children. This is awful and goes against the intent of youth sports.

Look at how soccer enforces age with a simple card system . They have many more players than lacrosse yet have no problem with age.

Grade base is destroying the integrity of youth Lacrosse. ENFORCE AGE USL. School is where grade based teams should be.

[quote=Anonymous]AGE BASED TEAMS AT YOUTH LEVEL..What has happened to youth Lacrosse with the gaming the system for select children. This is awful and goes against the intent of youth sports.

Look at how soccer enforces age with a simple card system . They have many more players than lacrosse yet have no problem with age.

Grade base is destroying the integrity of youth Lacrosse. ENFORCE AGE USL. School is where grade based teams should be.

Lacrosse really does seem to be the only sport that supports this practice. How come the governing body, U.S. LAX, can't enforce any guidelines?

I think we all should just inundate US LAX email with this concern, maybe even take a day where we all decide to call at various different times of the day!

Because travel lax has never been bigger, so US Lax caters to the clubs and not the individuals. They could have to player cards years ago but didn't. The clubs just want to win and place kids in college so they are the biggest rule benders because it suits their FOR PROFIT business model. Bet your house that none of this changes - BUT MANY ARE REALLY GOOD IDEAS being shared by people who love and know the sport.

i am happy that my youngest is going to be out of lacrosse by the time US Lacrosse ruins the summer travel circuit by going to age based instead of the correct and working grade based system. My son is a 2018 born in 2000 (age appropriate) and I want him to play against other kids in his grade for recruiting purposes. Playing against kids his age but in the grade below him will not help him get recruited or become a better player. if it's not broke don't fix it and don't change the rules because of a bunch of whiners who's kids can't compete. IMHO going to an aged based system will hurt kids that are age appropriate because they will play against kids in the recruiting year below and not improve and not get recruited.

i am happy that my youngest is going to be out of lacrosse by the time US Lacrosse ruins the summer travel circuit by going to age based instead of the correct and working grade based system. My son is a 2018 born in 2000 (age appropriate) and I want him to play against other kids in his grade for recruiting purposes. Playing against kids his age but in the grade below him will not help him get recruited or become a better player. if it's not broke don't fix it and don't change the rules because of a bunch of whiners who's kids can't compete. IMHO going to an aged based system will hurt kids that are age appropriate because they will play against kids in the recruiting year below and not improve and not get recruited.

i am happy that my youngest is going to be out of lacrosse by the time US Lacrosse ruins the summer travel circuit by going to age based instead of the correct and working grade based system. My son is a 2018 born in 2000 (age appropriate) and I want him to play against other kids in his grade for recruiting purposes. Playing against kids his age but in the grade below him will not help him get recruited or become a better player. if it's not broke don't fix it and don't change the rules because of a bunch of whiners who's kids can't compete. IMHO going to an aged based system will hurt kids that are age appropriate because they will play against kids in the recruiting year below and not improve and not get recruited.

Then what would keep a defender from constantly jumping into shooting space? Poor lazy defense would get rewarded over and over again! Every time a shot is about to be made the defender can just jump in the way and it would result in a 50 50. Please think it through before you make a silly suggestion. If you think that a girl can stop her shot when she's already started the motion as a defender jumps in front, you are seriously mistaken.

Wanna know why U S Lacross will never take the issue of SAFETY and proper age classification seriously. One of the members of the U.S. lacrosse sports science and safety committee ( a physician) has a "2019 Gilman" son that stands probably 6'2" and 200+ lbs. clearly a player that would be big for a sophomore instead of playing against 13 & 14 yr old incoming frosh.

They have people on that committee that will never give it any credence.

Instead of giving "little johnnie" steroids to make him a superior athlete, the better idea is to hold him back once (or TWICE) to be a superior athlete. That's fair! Right, Doc?

GIRLS YOUTH RULES

I have rising 9th and 7th grade girls and a 3-year daughter. I have helped coach them in various years starting when my oldest was in 2nd grade.

Girls are not getting enough touches and it is not a good game. I am in a non-hotbed area but girls lacrosse is very popular.

I think girls need to play on a small field and play no more than 9v9 (and I think 7v7 would be better) through U11. They need to get more touches to learn to play a passing game. Right now, even JV girls teams don't pass as well as U11 boys. I don't think it is because of the stick and skills - though that may be part of it - I think it is because they don't learn to pass because they can just run by girls and score.

I intend to do with this my 3 year old as she gets older regardless, but I'd love to see the girls game develop into a beautiful game before High School.

There is a reason soccer went to fewer players and smaller fields, it was to retain players because they were part of the game. Lacrosse kids quit in droves because many never touch the ball. Can't tell you how many times when we were in the 3 pass rule age that the goalie passed to one player, that player passed back to the goalie then the goalie returned to the passing player and that player ran from 1 cage to the other to shoot and score! That's lacrosee? Everyone else just stood around and watched. Every other healthy sport accepts that most kids wont play in college or get a scholarship. In Lax if you aren't playing year round for a full ride you are shunned

A question for the HOP, GREAT THREAD, lots of GREAT IDEAS but after years and years and years of inaction by US lacrosse, why do you think now is the time that real change will be instituted. Do you have inside info? The things brought up in this thread have been going on forever and others have tried to implement change and it has always fallen on deaf ears.

I hope this time its different!

This time is different. USL is actively addressing many of the issues discussed here.
Age verification for one will be rolled out with pilot programs this spring. Other changes are coming as well.
With decreasing growth numbers it's time.


I am involved with USL to answer your question and thank you for your input.

Can is lax take insurance away from clubs, leagues, and tournaments that don't follow the guidelines?

My worry is that many of the tournaments are not USL sanctioned, so even if they apply guidelines, your bigger clubs, your business focused clubs, those that promote holdbacks or turn a blind eye, will just attend other tournaments, making USL tournaments somewhat shunned. It seems like this may divide the lax community even more. I think guidelines are needed, I just don't know if clubs will be able to avoid them with their own tournaments and creativity to continue to manipulate the system. I think if college recruiting showcases and events really forced kids into age appropriate play, you might see a change, but that doesn't seem to be coming down the pike any time soon. I do give credit to USL for stepping up and trying to implement change.

There is a reason soccer went to fewer players and smaller fields, it was to retain players because they were part of the game. Lacrosse kids quit in droves because many never touch the ball. Can't tell you how many times when we were in the 3 pass rule age that the goalie passed to one player, that player passed back to the goalie then the goalie returned to the passing player and that player ran from 1 cage to the other to shoot and score! That's lacrosee? Everyone else just stood around and watched. Every other healthy sport accepts that most kids wont play in college or get a scholarship. In Lax if you aren't playing year round for a full ride you are shunned

Kind of off topib but, What is gonna happen when early committs dont either get the grades and/or the SAT scores needed to get thru the admissions processes...I am not talking,by a point or 2,but a vast difference...Any Thoughts?

Any youth league that has a mandatory pass rule needs to require that the passes occur in the box, and that the passes, in the judgment of the referee, are productive lacrosse passes and not just 2 foot passes to just satisfy the rule. I have never seen this done in practice, but this is how I would do it if I were in charge.

Another rule I would like to see at the youth level that I have never actually seen is a rule that limits the amount of goals that a player can score per game. Another rule that I have seen in other sports is that if your team wins by a certain inflated score, the win does not count.

Yet another possible rule - again one I have never actually seen - is to have a one-dodge rule at the lowest youth levels. This would mean that a kid can dodge one opponent, but then must give up the ball with a pass or shot. He can not dodge the second kid. Maybe this rule should be limited to the offensive half, permitting kids to clear the ball with legs. Again, these rules have, to my knowledge, never been used. They are just things I have dreamed up while watching games.

Keep in mind that I am referring to town teams and leagues, where growth is needed. Leagues where any kid with a pulse gets to play. Other sports modify their rules significantly at the youth level - baseball, football, and basketball do. Lacrosse needs to do so as well. These other sports, mostly baseball and basketball, modify less when travel teams are playing where the skill level is higher.

But with lacrosse, at the town level, 2/3/4 graders are mostly playing on the same size field as older kids, with the same rules. The only exception may be the lack of man down situations (which doesn't affect game play), and more conservative whistles with regard to hitting, which affects safety but not necessarily game play. There seems to be no modification of rules that permits more kids to be meaningfully involved, and for the game to flow better and be more balanced.

A lot has to do with the coaching also. My son has been blessed to be on a Town team where the coach has stressed passing since the kids first put on pads. They now pass to a fault and pass circles around other teams. All kids get touches and they almost always win. They give up many goals by passing to less skilled kids (who drop the ball) and sometimes lose a game because of it. But the kids have been drilled since they started to pass the ball, and are reaping the benefits of it now. I have literally seen them get up something like 8-0 and have 8 different kids score - all organically, meaning the coach is not doing anything to manufacture this, other than run his program where passing is required.

By contrast, almost all of our opponents are coached by men who simply yell "go, go, go, go to the cage" whenever one of their athletic kids gets the ball, even if its on their defensive side. The parents do the same. And yes, these kids score goals, and sometimes enough to beat us (although rare), but our kids are having more fun overall, and will be better players as they get older. Its a self-fulfilling philosophy used by these coaches. They don't emphasize passing so they never get good at it, which forces them to just have athletes run to the cage to score in order to stay in games, which thusly retards their growth at passing the ball, which then requires more one on one play to stay competitive, which leads to ... And these towns, which almost always have many times more kids available to them, wind up with less players enrolled than we have.

OK,Outside of Maryland....I can not imagine all the early committs making the grade all the time to every school..Seems like alot of scrambling will be going on.