BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Recruiting stories from the road. Share your experience.

I was at Lehigh this past weekend for a tournamnnet, and I will add the athletic area/stadium/fields are really very nice, the down side is they are on the "otherside" of the mountain then the academic/residential part of the school. Sorry we did not consider this school for my daughter.
and its pretty close to LI only 2:30 hour drive ( without traffic, of course)

Lets be honest, a lot of parents judge success by lacrosse stats and the name on top of the paper. To have Harvard or Duke on the top of a degree gets you looked at first, but by the tine your kid hits 30 it's there work ethic and decision making that keeps them in there job, not the college they attended. If you look at the return on investment over 20 years (Google it) one of, if not the best school is a small DIII, Colorado School of Mines.

Some very good players are attending "lower" schools because of the engineering/medical dilemma, I applaud them for thinking of what is best for them. A post referenced Stony Brook as not having a African Studies major (sarcasm is wasted on some people) what they also don't have is a nursing/medicine major at a school known for medical, why is that? In this era Business, communication, sports science are the new basket weaving majors for white athletes.

If your daughter wins a NCAA championship I will be very happy for you, but as you younger parents start dealing with this recruiting pressure try to keep this question in mind. Can you name 3 players off the top of you head that played on the championship team 15 years ago? Lacrosse is a terrific sport that we all love, but a very small part of life, guide your kids to to a successful life not a championship trophy

Preaching school and major over lacrosse? Your kid definitely doesn't play for YJ's. My 8th grader is ready to verbal to a school in a state she has never been to.

It was reported today, (news radio) that students graduating from either Manhattan College or Maritime College earn more money ten years after graduation than any of the Ivy's..

Maritime is a diamond in our own backyard. Two kids exact same major one graduated SUNY Maritime, one University of Delaware.

Maritime grad, had a 90K starting salary before graduation., as did the rest of the class. Stevens Institute another diamond and job placement but higher academic stats needed than Maritime.
Delaware kid took an entire year to find first job, starting salary 45K.

It appears to me that some on this site would have us believe that the best lacrosse players have very little chance at being successful in life. It is also apparent that some believe that any major other than engineering or some medical related field is a clear indication that the student athlete is not concerned at all with academics. It is implied by some that all of the young women who compete at the highest level study basket weaving in the classroom.

As with most of the topics discussed on this site the “know it all mentality” and “what we do is the best” along with hate, jealousy and bitterness come out.

When the kids are young its “my team is better than your team” , “Your team has not even won a tournament”, “your coach is ----“. “yeah, you won the tournament but only because no good teams were there”, “she is a ball hog she should pass the ball”, “if she passed the ball my daughter could score a goal too”.

Now that the girls have reached recruiting age we have people knocking the top programs in the country. Many of the top lacrosse schools are also top academic institutions as well.

How many girls that were offered a spot at Duke, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Princeton, Stanford, Boston College, Virginia, Georgetown, Penn, Hopkins or North Carolina said no thanks, I’m going to go to: Elon, Colgate, Lafayette, Manhattan etc...

How about this, they are all good schools. Have your daughter go to the school that is the best fit for her.

So, your hyper-defensive rant not withstanding, it turns out we agree. The girls should go to the school that is the best fit for her...and that may include passing on an opportunity to play for a top 10 team.

Your last sentence is very, very sound advice all the way around.

I think the whole recruiting for lacrosse has gotten out of hand. Parents and kids need to understand they are going to college first and playing lacrosse second. Only the very top players are being "recruited" by multiple schools and actually have choices. For most kids they have limited choices at the D1 level and lots of those are schools you would not necessarily want to go to.

My take from experience with two kids is first honestly evaluate your academic talent. Then be honest about your lacrosse talent. Then find a school that is at the intersection of both. You will have a better chance ending up with a good academic and lacrosse experience.

Look at Lax Power. You can understand your lacrosse talent by the Lax Power rating of the schools interested in you. If your daughter is being recruited by D1 teams in the 70s and 80s then she is a top 500 or 600 player. If she is being recruited by teams in the top 20 then she is a top 150 type player. I think this really helps frame things and keeps you from wasting time and being strung along by coaches .

Let's go Jaspers! But the Lax program is a mess, getting regularly wrecked by North Carolina and shut out by Hofstra this year like 15 - 20 to zip. Tried to step it up but very poor results with their new coach.

Probably there plenty of engineering majors on the men's squad (I didn't look it up). Close enough to so many hotbed suburban areas, but they don't get enough talent. Maybe all this publicity will help.

players are leaving Manhattan college!! And decommitting.. Poorly run program no love for the coach and no support from AD. That is a fact.

Parent of a "committed" 2018 here. Just spent last August through February going through the process and got a change to learn alot good and bad.

Based on our experience different programs allocate scholarship money very differently. Some hold pretty firm to .25 scholarships per player. Others allocate the major portion of those scholarships to secure "franchise" players as a strategy to out recruit the big name programs.

Heading into the process we read that we should not expect anymore than a 25% scholarship. By other insiders were told that at max a top prospect would get 75%.

In the fall 2014 certain programs actually did offer a "virtual" full ride i.e, 95% of total costs. Another offered ~85% of tuition. Yet another big name coach directly used the words "full ride." While these offers statistically have to be rare, they do exist and are even a standard for 1-2 players/class for some programs.

Inline with the initial guidance I received I believe a top 20 player has chance at a "virtual" full ride (i85%+). top 50 maybe 50-75%, top 100 25-50%, and the remaining top 200 are likely to have a shot at 25%. Considering that (NCAA D1) programs apply different strategies and some are very unlikely to exceed 25%.

Do not at the end of the day a number of these programs (including non-scholarship schools like ivys) are top academic institutions, and guaranteed or preferred admissions possible via lacrosse have significant value sans "money" in such a highly competitive college admissions climate.

Oh and of course at the end of the day pre NLI in year, all scholarship allocations are just a "gentlemens agreement" and can change (though I have yet to hear of a coach outright reneging)

That is an important point!

At some point, if the goal is largely to land a scholarship, you have to watch the ROI. I know I have spent upwards of $10k a year certain years in traveling, team fees, etc across 4 years say 8th-11th grade, this is potentially well over $40k and I know some parents who are pushing closer to $100k lifetime spend. For those parents if they are lucky enough to receive a 25% scholarship on a school with $50/yr net tuition. Then they are $50k in the whole, plus still have $150k in cost to cover via other means.

I somewhat justify the cost as such:

- Father/Son bonding - 30%
- Development of health and fitness habits - 20%
- Learning discipline, perseverance etc - 10%
- General life lessons of a team sport - 10%
- Increased access to top tier institutions - 15%
- Healthy social experience - 5%
- Networking/building long term national relationships - 5%
- Scholarship opps - 5%

Thus arguably I only need to recoup $10k of my $40k in a scholarship to see ROI. Or get a 15% increase in chances of admission to top 20 school. And even without out that we still would have gained 80% value in other very important things. Yes, they can be gained through other less expensive pursuits, but the choosen passion is Lacrosse.

Note: My son ultimately chose an Ivy, so there goes the money :^( :^ )

Officially there is a firewall between the aid offices and athletic dept (beyond the 12.5 scholarships), however as one would expect it seems the athletics dept has "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" influence. Some more than others.

Opps. Did not include the original past in the above. Guess I have to learn how to properly post ;^)

I guess no more than 30-50% of D1 programs are fully funded. Assuming your logic, if 1-2 players per class receive "full" scholarships, that leaves approx. 6 scholarships for the remaining 40+ roster.

I would like some thoughts on this, some schools do camps and expect their recruiting classes to participate which I understand here is the problem. It's a 3 day camp and a 3 hour flight she can only make two days because of a prior obligation so fly out on Monday morning fly back Tuesday night and miss one day of camp. She is signed and sealed with about a 45% scholarship is class of 2015. Cost of camp & flight about $900. We are not rich and money is a concern but we want to start out on the right foot and not have her missing camp in the back of the coaches minds in the fall. She did attend last year and the cost will not break the bank any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks plus she is good either way missing or going.

But the ROI is priceless! Congrats to your son.

Agreed and Thanks.

There is some method to the madness of potentially being a crazy lax parent ;^)

I would communicate frankly with the Coach. My bet is they will understand. I think skipping the camp to focus on other financial priorities should be perfectly acceptable. If the coach is not understanding then that in itself may be a bad sign.

That "feels" about right. Of course that is for the fully funded programs that use big numbers to grab good players. Ultimately would differ by program and funding level.

So in that scenario you may have 24 players on 25% and 16 players full pay (walk on etc)

Don't be fooled by the travel websites saying committed. Many have been offered nothing more than admission to the school and a roster spot. Then if they qualify for academic money good for them. And they have a chance to compete for playing time.

there are essentially no full scholarships. I played with Dom Starsia at Brown and we are still friends. He will tell anybody in his 26 or so years as a head coach he has given 4 one year full rides...odds dictate your child will not be one of them. 12.6 scholarships to a d1 program and 50 kids. do the math and realize that only all americans get 50%, anything more is very rare. also rememeber athletic money is renewable every year, so if somebody plays better than your child the money you get can go down easier than up. academic money is for 4 years assuming grades stay intact.

And you know this how? Lets take a look at this logically okay we will start with admission to the school. WRONG what 10th grader even applied to college so admission to the school is completely wrong. You get admitted when you apply and get accepted not when you verbally commit. Even after you sign your letter of intent, first week of November senior year you still do not know if you got acceptted to the school. Sometime in April or May follow? Point #2 why would you verbally commit if your not getting any money as a 10th or 9th grader and diminish your chances of being recruited by a school that is willing to pay for a portion of school? Your going to say because thats the school he or she wants to go to but you dont get acceppted until your a senior and you apply. Verbally committing and getting acceppted to the school are two completely different things. So your statement is not well thought out. You may personnaly know all of the verbally committed players on all the travel websites and then yes I would be wrong.

websites show everyone even seniors. Post didn't reference what grade

"Coaches say there are good lacrosse opportunities in college for those who want them, but getting a Division I scholarship is a dream that less than one percent of them will achieve. Never mind a full ride.

Virginia coach Dom Starsia has had three Tewaaraton Award winners in Charlottesville — CHRIS ROTELLI, MATT WARD and STEELE STANWICK— whom he estimates combined for a little more than one full scholarship."


IF those 3 boys split one tuition scholarship, everyone on this site is delusional.

http://laxmagazine.com/high_school/...g_red_flags_on_the_club_lacrosse_circuit

I am referring to actual experience, when I say near full rides do exists. Of course 1) They are rare 2) Some programs never or almost never offer full rides.

Key is while it is ok to set expectations that they are unlikely, it is false to say they don't exist, or that every person who said they got one is lying.

For accuracy I am calling a near full ride 90%+ of total costs.

the bigger better deals are usually offered by lesser schools and programs where players can be the big fish in a smaller pond. The big programs get the studs to come for their lacrosse and the education. Weaker schools have to overpay for big time talent and every year some kids trade down to these type of programs. Syracuse, UNC, ND, Duke Virginia don't have to give away the farm to get anyone! Great schools, great lax

The reality is that most "scholarships" are a package of funding sources. Need based aid, plus merit aid, plus athletic with the latter typically representing the smallest funding stream of the three.

However, since there seems to be a certain status associated with athletic scholarships that tends to be what Mom and Dad focus on when regaling their friends and family with their stories from the recruiting wars.

I especially love it when I hear that a kid is going to Penn or Harvard on a full scholarship. Really? Since the Ivies offer no merit aid and no athletic aid these must be particularly needy folk or well, you do the math.

Here is a winning formula IMO. Have your kid spend 2 hours engaged in extra academic enrichment or community service for every one hour they spend in lacrosse. If you do that for 12 or 13 years scoring a 15-25% athletic scholarship can hopefully be paired with another 25% of merit aid. Toss in whatever other private scholarships and need-based aid you can score and you can realistically look to score a substantial discount off that 60K a year price tag that many outstanding schools are advertising as their retail cost.

This strategy will not work at the Ivies or the large public universities all of whom either offer no merit money or precious little.

Of course there are the service academies where everybody gets a "full scholarship" and guaranteed job placement to boot.

Have fun!

Full athletic rides... rare if any.

But I know a major D1 player that payed less than $5K to a $60K school when all the aid, merit, etc was added to the athletic scholarship. Granted he was a very good student.

To get that deal you better be the "Total Package!"

I have never heard any parent of a child headed to Penn or Harvard say their kid is getting a full scholarship. I know many parents who have turned down significant scholarships from other schools and instead sent their child to Penn and Harvard.

You are wrong. D2 can't combine athletic and academic or it all counts against athletic budget. you can't get 10k for lax and 15 for academics. one or the other. get good grades. academic money is for 4 years. athletic is a 1 year contract only. if you need money for school. you need really good grades or you need to be at a school where your child is their reach student not the school being your kids reach school

Fooled?? Do any of the websites mention anything about scholarships??

Lacrosse has always been about "getting into a school". Lacrosse has been used as a tool to enable a student athlete to be admitted to a school that would otherwise be beyond the students academic reach.

which is a 1 in a million, not relevent to 99.9999%

LOL Sounds like double talk, It is always implied that the commits get cash!

My son received both athletic and academic at a D2 school. You are correct that athletic money is traditionally only a one year deal. I am sure some coaches have promised and kept their word on a (4) year athletic. Academic is for (4) years but keep in mind you need to maintain a 3.0 GPA in most schools. Perhaps I misread your post but again, a lax player can get both athletic and academic in D2...

They can get both at D1 and D2 schools. They just have to have high enough grades and test scores. Otherwise the total amount counts against the athletic allotment.

coaches like smart kids, means more cash available for their program and less grief with passing your classes during the season

What about if a kid works really hard but can only maintain a high 80's average? Does having an IEP help or hurt? Realistically, if anyone has personally been through something like this please share your experience thank you. Lots of "I heard" but I don't know anyone who has actually been through the process

Correct. Agreed. For the poster initially quoted. Ivies only offer merit money or merit scholarships. They offer no athletic scholarships, and merit money is based on a formula independent of athletics or academics. What lacrosse can gain you is preferred admission to a schools with single digit acceptance rates, for which some parents would sacrifice a limb to get their child accepted at.