BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2017 Fall 2014/Summer 2015

No blame, just face the facts. You have a team full of kids that should be rising college freshman and HS seniors. Look it doesn't matter, everyone know its the only way MD, PA and Mass teams can compete. It's what you have to do to be competitive with LI's best. Look, you wouldn't do it if you didn't have to. You might be fooling yourself, but I assure you, you're not fooling anyone else.

I do agree with you for the most part. I have not always been happy that my son was forced to play against older beasts in some cases. It seems that this is how lacrosse works. Unfortunately there are no enforced age brackets for the most part. I also realize that not all kids play in college. But we not talking about average lacrosse players here. We are talking about the Turtles, many of whom have been doing just fine on their varsity teams. I still believe that at this stage (11th grade), age should no longer be major factor in their performance in the club circuit. If a team has a few holbacks it should not really matter. The sport has grown and there are a lot more great players out there than there were 3 years ago. It just plain got harder to stay on top!

Other teams are as good or better than the Turtles. Ok, I allow that there is a grade repeating pandemic in Maryland because I am from Maryland and see it everywhere. I don't like it either. But when the 2017 kids be they Turtles or not aren't going to be getting any "help" by getting all those kids 1-2 years older them them off their field. I think the reclassify game is disgraceful at the middle school and elementary levels. Sometimes people hold their kid back for non-lacrosse reasons and those people and their kids I feel bad for being vilified with the group that do it just for early recruiting advantages.

But in high school the jig is up. From here on you have to compete up and that means older more mature kids on your field. I see it starting to happen with 2017s in Maryland. Put them on the field with 2015s and they suddenly shudder and shrink. When players were good a generation ago they played up and were proud to point to that. If the Turtles kids are struggling to "play up" because of all the reclass nonsense congesting a bunch of 18 and 19 year olds against kids like my 16 year old on-age rising junior seems to hard, then those 16 year olds who can't handle it are in really bad shape to compete in college programs.

Great points, but here's the problem with your theory. the difference in physical maturity between a 16 year old in middle school playing against 14 year olds is the worst point for the re-class thing. However, it still very much an issue for 16 year olds playing against 18 and 19 year olds. For superior players, less of an issue. Although, one cannot dispute that even the highest caliber 16 year old will be somewhat limited in what he can do against a talented 18 year old. It's just a mis-match. I do agree that the age thing fades over time, however I think it fades when kids are about 19. I can only go by my own on age college freshman. Starting the season as a HS senior he was 6'1" 172, very fast. Starting the freshman College season same height 188, much thicker, and even faster. it's called physical maturity. Or as we use to say, they filled out... There's no denying it.

If the age difference disappears, why are the holdbacks that are so good not playing up and still playing down? Makes no sense. The argument goes both ways. The holdbacks aren't any better and aren't ready for college if they are still playing against younger kids. Ridiculous statement. Check your kid and see how he does against his own peers and those two years older- than tell me HS age is still a non factor. Your holdback will be in for a shock when HE gets put in a pool of kids 2-4 yrs older. The non holdbacks have been doing that for years! Best rise to the top, the weak play younger.

Please cite any team with a kid previously in the Class of 2015 who is now playing on a Class of 2017 team.

Any team. I'm interested to see you cite some facts.

Not going to single out kids because of their parents decisions, clearly the kid didn't re-class himself two times. Stop with nonsense, you know who they are, everyone does. By the way, there are also many kids who should be 2016's who've found their way on to 2018 teams as well.

As well as on to 2017 teams such as the one being discussed!

Ok, we've established that you are a liar.

Keep tilting at windmills, LI dad.

Get over it and time to worry about the changing mentality of college coaches telling kids they no longer have a spot or getting a letter from schools that Juniors grades were not good enough to get through admissions
If you really want to get an idea of the number of holdbacks UA underclass roster posts birthdates of all of the NJ Philly Mass MD and even Turtle kids who have 97 and 98 birthdates. My son is a 99 and would never considered reclassifying or doing a post grad year to get somewhere he doesn't belong He has also never complained about playing older kids in varsity game or club tourneys. The parents seem more obsessed than the kids who probably could care less
The turtles are still a great team with great players but others are catching up. All teams this summer were inconsistent since kids focus on school not club practices.

DOB are all posted on the under armour rosters. Check it out. You might be surprised. That includes all regions.

I think you are right that the new focus should be on whether early recruits actually get admitted and do they get to play or sit on the bench. I also think it will be interesting to see how many early recruits decommit and recommit to another school. I believe I read of at least 2 this week. It appears as kids get a bit older, they learn what they would really like out of a school, coach, team, realize they may not get accepted by their original school, or they get better offers and make the change.

I think the next five years will be a bumpy road for all, but the pendulum will eventually right itself and we will go back to seeing coaches looking at older kids once again, and not rising ninth and tenth graders.

Ok MD,PA or Mass Dad, make sure you let Jr. take the car to JV practice. Great deflection technique, accuse those who expose you and your son of lying... My son was at recent most exclusive showcase, two kids on his team were 2 year re-class. How do we know? Because the kids admitted it. One played on an MD team the other Mass. Sorry moron, just a fact! I know folks like you have problems understanding right from wrong. BTW, awesome literary reference. I guess when your son had to read that book for the third time this year it left a huge impression on him, and you. See if you can reference "to kill a mocking bird" in your next reply. Jr. must have read that one three times too. I have to ask? Does he save the paper from the year before or does he hand in the one from two years ago? Maybe he wrote a new one? After three times, perhaps he finally cracked that A...

Crabs 2017 have surpassed the Turtles now. After beating them twice, they are clearly the best 2017 team now.

The Crabs are a 2016 team playing at 2017. Look at there DOB??

That's because they are really a 2015 team- no joke! Congrats on your success!!!

Is that the same crabs team that 91 beat. A

LOL. I thought only the U11 and U13 LI dads cried about kids who reclass. Now you guys are complaining about a few kids who reclass because your poor Turtles team is no longer on top?

What's next - asking HS teams who beat your son's HS team to forfeit because their are kids older than yours on the field?

College recruiters are looking at grade - they couldn't care less if one kid is older or younger. This has been happening in sports like hockey, basketball, etc., but of course you don't care unless it's your son who gets the L.

Deal with it. Turtles had a good run, but now they are just one of several teams who are very good.

By the way I am the biggest puss in my town and my kid isn't far behind. I comment on here because my wife is so fat and ugly I can barely look at her so I spend my time on the computer picking my nose and sniffing my farts. Have some pity on me please.

Yep. And Team 91 lost to a so-so Mesa Fresh team.

Kid not on Turtles. At least just admit the only way your clubs can compete against LI's best is by playing down. The jury is in, everyone knows. MD, PA, and Mass, only win when they have a team full 1 and 2 year re-classes. It obvious, that's when your teams "get better"... LOL. I love how you guys get all full of yourselves, when your club finally wins a game against the best. The "it's HS now" and all that is great too. Your kids and teams have always, and will always have to play down to win against the best! Just a fact. Now go buy a car for your 18 yo Junior.

Wrong. My son doesn't play in MD and didn't reclass.

But I bet you have the nicest car port on Strong Island.

car port?..car up on blocks in front of his yard

Crabs 17's have one 1 tournament in the last 2 years...and it was a rain shortened one at that...they are good, but McLernan keeps recruiting in new commits to make sure they are among the best...getting a committed goalie and a committed defender for next year as well as a re-classed 16 goalie who will PG...as I said, they are good but not a real 17 team. Ryan likes to be able to list committed athletes on his website, even if they only play 1 year for the crabs...helps bring in the suckers, I mean recruits at younger ages

Hahahahahaha, You must being looking out the window of your trailer.... Stop huffing on the toilet cleaner, you're delusional.

oh yeah, we are the white trash. you ever look in your neighborhood, there must be atleast 1 pickup truck parked in every dirt driveway on your block. don't forget the make shift tarp you have on the side of your house so you can fix up your dads pick up from 1950. go eat some crab and start cooking your meth

Well, I don't live in Maryland, but those are some really sick burns. I wasn't aware that everyone in Maryland has a dirt driveway and cooks meth, but I guess you must be right.

Turtles are really making themselves look pathetic, instead of losing with grace, they have turned into a bunch of whining blamers! It's because if this, that , whatever!. Accept your losses and work harder like everyone else does! I'm about to shed a crocodile tear for you, right after I break out the violins!

I sincerely doubt there is one turtle or parent making these ridiculous statements, nor do they care so deeply about a loss, as they know, there is life after high school lacrosse. You are probably bantering back and forth with a middle schooler or possibly even an immature high schooler, getting a kick out of all the posts. Maybe we can return to lacrosse talk and stop slinging mud about various regions of the US.

The Crabs 2017 won two of three tournaments this year, NSCLA and Crab City. That was before the roster changes.

Not associated with Turtles... But work harder? At what? Adding reclassed 2015's and 2016's? That's what your teams work harder at...

Well if you are a Turtle parent, how about you grow a pair and start calling these Clubs and Parents out who are ruining this sport. I guess now that your son is committed you're above the fray. How about standing up for the rest of the LI kids that have to compete against kids two years older to try and earn a college spot. I for one will not stop hammering these punks from MD, PA and Mass. It's a disgrace. If you don't like it, go to another board.

Sure. Every single opponent you're facing is a kid who is two years older than your son. Every single one.

Sure. Keep telling that to yourself.

When they get to college they will be playing against guys 1-4 years older also. The best thing that could happen to an on age 2017 kid is to play against older players. My son turned 16 a couple months ago and at this point going forward, it's an excuse for not being better. I am a Maryland parent and have noticed the 2016 kids who were drop downs from 2016....can't think of one instance where it really helped the kid. Sure, some got committed, but then what? The jig is up. Turtles have nothing to be sad about for dropping some games. Get mad, get better. My son for one welcome all the reclassify comers. When it matters in college you just have to be better or you get discarded to the bench. Good for some local Crabs, Madlax kids who are 2017s. They get a free ticket to the games and a nice view from the sidelines of kids like my son.

Never said that dumba$$... You did. But your are correct, you see my son has played up since 8th grade, so the kids are always older. That's his choice. Your kid plays down and makes the on age kid play up. That kid has no choice. Will continue to call out the those that game the system. Sorry, try again.

1. It's "you're", not "your", donkey.

2. My son doesn't play down. But keeping thinking that everyone else does in order to make yourself feel better after the game.

3. If your son is a 2017, he's in HS. So stop crying about older kids.

your, I mean you're a [lacrosse]... Thanks so much for correcting. Btw if you had any reading comprehension skills you would know my son plays up, he played Varsity tournaments as a rising 9th grader, so the kids are always older... Get it now? I stick up for what's right. Something that's lacking in this sport. Kids that can play up, should. Kids that don't want to, should also have that option.

How will the holdbacks every get better if they consistently play with younger kids and then go to college and all of a sudden they are playing older players? It would seem to me, that the holdbacks are putting themselves at a disadvantage when it most counts. Nothing like waiting until you get to your first college practice to play with the big boys. The logic is very flawed- talent rises and players continue to play up and challenge oneself. The weaker play down and stay down. Coaches and players alike will see this when the holdbacks end up being very average in college. Athletes should challenge themselves at all times- it is what makes a player grow.

Their are holdback in hockey, basketball and many other sports, and those kids do just fine.

The only people who seem to complain are LI lacrosse dads.

Not complaining- just pointing out the obvious. Playing down with younger kids will really not do much to challenge a player. Hockey players repeat a grade or do a 13th yr more so, so they can go to Juniors. They still have to play age apprpropriate in their travel team as per US Hockey rules. They still get challenged.

Explain to me how a holdback gets better playing down. It only gets them recruited earlier. They stand out among younger kids usually of smaller stature. I'm not saying it won't help them get into a school, but it certainly won't help them get better, it's just a facade and once the smoke clears, and the younger kids catch up, that holdback really hasn't had the opportunity to do what is best for their skills as a player, as anyone can look good playing down, There is also no data as lax is fairly new on how playing down will get a kid recruited AND playing time. Looking forward to seeing how many holdbacks make it to a top Div 1 school, who stays with it and if they get playing time before their junior/senior year. It certainly will be interesting to see if having a kid left back and manipulating their life for lacrosse will have any gain at all. My bet is that the success will be a smaller percentage than what one expected when the decision was made. Why not wait to PG instead of leaving your kid back a year in school?

No holdbacks in Hockey, strict age rules that go by birth year. i.e. 96, 97, 98. Try again.
Only people that defend holdbacks are parents of kids who can't compete on age from PA, MD and Mass. Only way your teams can compete. Everyone knows. Face it, if you didn't have 1 and 2 year holdbacks your kid's team would never win anything. 99.9% of LI kids play on age or play up. No complaining, just going to continue to expose you and your kid.