BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Recruiting stories from the road. Share your experience.

Can you coment on why he was not admitted? was it purley an academic/admissions decsion by the school?
I have a verbally committed rising senior, Im obviously concerned by this story. whats the thoughts by those whove gone through it. do you keep talking to coaches? apply to a "safety" school

How does your boy commit to a DIII school? They have no athletic scholarships. I guess you could have some help from the lacrosse coach, but division 3 gives no athletic $$ and therefore no commitments

this is obviously a fake question. you have to know that commitments are made regardless of money. the fact that you are on this site and its blogs demonstrates that you know better than to say that. nice try toolbag

D3 commit is no more than "you have a roster spot" if you attend and that's IF you get accepted!

IVY and top academic D3 do not offer anything but slots for D3, or likely letters for IVY. If the coach at the D3 did not say he is giving you a slot, but only support, well you had better have a back up plan. It is up to admissions, you are just another applicant who will play lacrosse once you get admitted.
Ivy if you do not get a likely letter, you are also in the regular admittance pool of applicants.
Keep your options open, keep talking to others.
http://www.tier1athletics.org/category/division-3-recruiting/

No chance that I am attempting to tout for W&L. I "heard" it from one of the boy's parents. For me with my son, it is a reminder that there are no guarantees until he is actually admitted. Which, I think, is an important lesson about this whole process. As far as W&L is concerned, I think it is a wonderful school for the right man or woman; FYI neither my wife nor I, nor any of our relatives attended W&L, AND my son is not considering W&L. Last thing I will say about W&L is that it does seem as though the coach is an honorable person and clearly was blind-sided by the admissions committee. Whether there is more to the story than that, I don't know.

I can say that many of these so called commits are just handshakes for the early commits. That's it. Until national Letter of Intent Days that's all it is for D1 and D2. As for D3 its all in the acceptance policy of the school. Most D3 schools don't really do anything until 11th grade.

I think you only heard part of the story. My instinct is the parents had selective listening and reading. The coach likely told them everything is subject to admissions. I know plenty of kids who have gone to W and L and the coaches were straightforward and gave them an accurate picture of admissions. Shame on the parents for allowing this to happen. Also a D 3 school does not have the same process of verbal commitments that a D1 has. One of the reasons is that a D3 can put everything in writing from Day 1. So these parents knew the score going in. My guess is the kid had sub par ACT

All D1,D2 & D3 verbal commits are subject to acceptance to admittance. Some of the bigger schools will get a couple of exemptions but most if not all D2 and D3 do not. The Ivy league, N.D. and most of the private institutions do not allow exemptions, you are subject to the admitting process just like everyone els (though being able to play will give you and edge if the coach really wants you)

Big schools absolutely get exceptions. Ever see a Duke, UNC or Miami basketball or Football press conference? If they make the national minimums the coaches walk them in. Not so at ND, IVY's and D3 although D3 does give many coaches flexibility even though there is no money.

You have no idea of what you are talking about.

Ivy coaches have plenty of wiggle room , if you think these kids that are early commits to some of the Ivies have near the same academic resume as their incoming class you are dead wrong.

I think a big reason for all of the confusion and misinformation is that the large majority of high school athletes Do Not Get Recruited. Therefore the parents do not have the facts or understand the process.

Taking a bus trip with your team to visit a number of schools is not being recruited.

Going to a camp is not being recruited.

Contacting a College Coach or having club or high school coach do so for you is not being recruited.

Asking the College Coach if you can visit with them is not being recruited.

Recruited athletes are approached by the college coach. If a college coach watches your child play and that coach likes what they see they make note of it.
If the college coach believes that your child will be able to contribute positively to their program they will reach out to you through your club or HS coach.

You will know if you are being recruited.

College coaches know what they like when they see it and they will tell you and your child directly. Some coaches will want to see grades/transcripts before they pursue a recruit in order to insure that they are not wasting anyones time.

If the college coach wants you to be a part of their program they will tell you.

At the Division I level recruited athletes do not go through the same admissions process as regular students.

Does not matter if it is

Northwestern or Notre Dame
North Carolina or Michigan
Princeton or Penn
Duke or Boston College
Maryland or Penn State
Hopkins or Georgetown
Loyola or Hofstra
Syracuse or Boston University
Stony Brook of Delaware

If your child is a top tier recruited student athlete (for that college) they do not go through the same process as the general student population. Each school has their owen way of doing things but recruited athletes are required to meet different academic standards than regular students.

The academic requirements can also differ among prospective athletes at the same school. The number one recruit could have different requirements than the number 10 recruit.

If athletic scholarship money is involved that will also differ among recruits.

Best of luck to all.

PS another reason for the confusion is the jealous haters out there can't stand it if someone else has success.

The haters will say nobody gets a lot of $$$ for lacrosse, if you go to a big time program you will sit on the bench, Ivy's do not give any $$$, Only getting recruited because daddy knows the coach, etc...

Oh yeah, my favorite, we are going D-III because we want to focus on academics.

What are the hidden Gems of DI Women's lacrosse schools. Good academics, Good Lacrosse, A great package of school, campus, college life and sports. For example I have heard good things about Elon in NC.

Seems like a highly unlikely scenario based on the kids academic record. He would have easily been admitted to ANY Ivy as a recruited lax kid with those grades and board scores. Sounds like there is much to the story that you didn't "hear".

Make sure the coach is fully "supporting" your son's application. My D3 son applied, coach told us to inform him when his app was submitted. We did. He got a call from the coach 3 days later that he was in, and had an official acceptance letter from the school 2 days later. It was that simple. Coaches support is crucial. The difference is some people think they are being recruited, when in fact the coach is telling you to apply, and if you get in on your own, you can come out for the team.

Hidden Lacrosse gems and great academic institutions with good lacrosse programs are two different things. Would you rather a great 4 years of lax at Elon or sit on the bench at Northwestern or UNC and then when your daughter is done, which school gets your daughter on the top of the resume pile? I think you know the answer. Go to the school that sets you up best for the next phase of your life unless your dream is to be a summer lacrosse coach

If UNC NW were an option I would sign up right now, but realistically that is not going to happen. There are plenty of schools that have a lot to offer that are not the traditional top 20 and academic elite.

My kids are your traditional good middle class Long Island kids. They are not going to IVY, Hopkins, VA., UNC etc.

Those that have already been through the process what schools outside the traditional powers what schools did you like?

Thank you, finally someone with no hate of jealousy. I agree, for the athletes who get recruited by those schools I think it is great.

There are too many great places to go to school to list.

Good luck with the process.

Every school is different and depends on what you are looking for. Get the list of schools offering lacrosse and cross reference it to the US News rankings. That would be a way to go about getting some targets.

One word of caution, pick the school for the school. Lacrosse coaches come and go. Also they are not necessarily the brightest bulbs on the mens side and on the womans side they are incredibly catty.

Davidson, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell. There are four OUTSTANDING academic institutions that in many ways are superior to the large research-oriented universities mentioned above. At these schools your kids will be taught by---GASP!---professors and not grad assistants and the focus is on TEACHING and not graduate research (to be fair, Lehigh is a small University). As for the level of lacrosse, I am inclined to say "Who cares?" These are elite schools playing DI lacrosse and all four offer need based, merit, and athletic aid.

You are better off looking at Princeton Review than US News which is not scientifically based. Schools like Colgate, Bucknell, Villanova, Richmond, Vermont are all excellent academically and have a decent lacrosse experience. There are many others also. Go to Laxpower to see all options.

OK...I thought about this some more, and here is a great list of DI schools where TEACHING is a priority over research and where merit, need-based, and athletic aid are available...in no particular order:

Army, Navy, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Furman, Elon, Davidson, Binghamton (Harpur College segment of Binghamton is EXCELLENT), William & Mary, and Richmond. And while not at the same level in MY opinion, maybe throw in Elon, Monmouth, Loyola, High Point, and Mt. St. Mary's which are all very good schools. I would love to put Colgate on this list, but no merit aid at Colgate.

So there is 16 schools where your kid can easily get an equal---and in most cases BETTER---education than virtually all of the large, name brand research universities and likely at a lower cost (after need, merit, and athletic aid).

And I didn't even mention DIII where there are far many more schools that fit the criteria you inquired about.

GOOD LUCK!

Good list except for Monmouth. Need less than a 1,000 SAT and it's almost $50,000 in tuition. You can do way better academically but lacrosse is on the rise there

I would definitely swap Elon with Loyola in the first sentence.

Thank you for the great responses. That is what I was looking for. I have another realistic question. With the limited amount of scholarship and merit money spread around, is it realistic to think that tuition for a player that a college wants and has the grades could be around the equivalent to SUNY tuition?

Lehigh has more undergrads than all of the other 3, with about 5000. Bucknell 3600, Lafayette 2500, Davidson 1800.

Same amount as SUNY---this would depend quite a bit on what kind of grades/activities/test scores your daughter has assembled, what your FAFSA profile is, and how highly your daughter's lacrosse skills are valued. So, while your question cannot specifically be answered, I will say this...it is VERY plausible for a strong student who is recruited for lacrosse to combine academic, athletic, and need based aid to reduce cost by over 50%. This is especially true if your daughter is a strong STEM student. Female engineers in particular are highly coveted at a number of schools, including some of the schools listed above.

What I meant about Lehigh being a "small University" is that the others are largely Liberal Arts Colleges while Lehigh is a University with a significant focus on graduate programs. So yes, while it is a "small" university, it is bigger generally larger than the other schools mentioned and does not have the exclusive (or near exclusive) focus on undergraduate that a Lafayette of Bucknell does.

BUT, many D1 schools don't want lacrosse players to have engineering, medical or nursing majors. That's a fact. They really want business, psych, communication, African studies majors...

That is true about many schools not wanting kids to have certain majors...especially demanding majors like engineering. However, that is why I crafted the list I did. Those schools do not have those types of restrictions and place the academics above the athletics. So, it's not a coincidence that I selected those schools. Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Davidson, Army and Navy have no such restrictions at all...take a look at their rosters and check the girls majors and you will see what I mean.

Heck, the academic liaison to the Women's lax team at Lafayette is the Dean of the Engineering program. And I agree with the earlier poster, some of the schools mentioned (Monmouth, High Point, Elon, Mt. St. Mary's) are not as demanding from an admissions standpoint as some of the others on the list, but not knowing the kid involved I thought it wise to have some other options listed.

Just checked and Lafayette's current roster has 3 engineering majors, 2 neuroscience majors, and a chemistry major.

Lehigh has 2 engineering majors, 2 neuroscience majors, and a math major.

These are good schools that place academics first. And again, you get taught by professors. Quite a concept...a college that place teaching and learning above all else.

As an aside...if my daughter wants to major in a particular major, especially something that is very challenging like engineering...and the coach tells her "we do not allow that here" why in God's name would I ever consider that school as an option.

Nobody is going pro in this thing so parents need to stop acting like they are. College should be an academic decision (in the context of your financial abilities). Lacrosse should be a distant second.

This is not football or basketball...there are no million dollar contracts awaiting our daughters for lacrosse. And I view that as a glass half full, not half empty. We have the luxury of making an academic decision and that is great.

Find me one Girl on the Lacrosse Team that Majors in African Studies at any of the following:

Duke, Virginia, Boston College, Princeton, Penn, Northwestern, North Carolina, Penn State, Stanford, Maryland, Hopkins, Florida, Georgetown, Syracuse, Michigan, Stony Brook, Louisville, Ohio State, Albany, Southern California, Cornell or Hofstra.

wow...what a revelation!!! you are a genius

You would be SHOCKED at how many parents and kids are just about the playing and the package offered. As crazy as it sounds we know many that have entered as "undecided' after letting all their friends know what their major of preference was. Undecided gets you on the team but it almost always adds additional semesters onto your 4 year degree. You really need to be taking the mandatory pre reqs in your 1st semester because they vary greatly if you are going the science/medical or business route

Top players can be engineering majors, lower roster players can not.

You say it as if your daughter has the option of going to Duke, Princeton, Northwestern, Penn, Stanford etc.... As if she were recruited by these schools and offered a spot. Are you saying that you would advise against one of these schools in favor of one of the "academic schools".

The vast majority of girls playing at the schools listed were probably not heavily recruited by the schools regularly ranked in the Top 20-30 for lacrosse. Many of which are highly ranked academically as well.

I absolutely directed my daughter away from more highly ranked lacrosse programs towards what I believed were better academic opportunities for her. This is not to say that there are not great schools that have highly ranked lacrosse programs. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive. However, for what worked for us academically and financially, we did not have any top 10 programs on her list though some of those schools showed interest during the recruiting process.

She also seriously considered a range of DIII schools for academic purposes and because the potential for merit aid was greater in some of those instances.

Why would that surprise anybody and why would that be considered unusual behavior? The overwhelming likelihood is that she will be completely done playing lacrosse when she is 22. Why wouldn't we make it an academic and financial decision first?

As for the various schools listed, that was a list I feel strongly about for OUR purposes, and which seemed to provide one set of answers for the earlier poster that asked the question. Others will obviously have to make their own list on their own and I am sure no two lists will be the same.

GOOD LUCK and HAVE FUN!

This has been looked at before. Look at the top 15 girls on Northwestern all are taking easier majors than the bottom 15. If you don't think the high minute, highly productive, highly recruited studs are being directed to certain majors you are fooling yourself. You need to look at the top 10 girls on each team. Top 20 D1 lax is a fulltime job and all the pols say that they spend more time on sports than academics