BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Age Verification

The reason that there are grade based tournaments with no age restrictions is that there are a lot of clubs that want to play under those rules (or lack thereof).

No one forces a club to play older teams. You either pick a tournament and a bracket where there won't be over age kids or you don't. Avoiding the AA bracket of highly competitive tournaments pretty much eliminates the problem.

The only reason there is an issue is that parents and club directors want the bragging rights of saying they won in the highest brackets and in the best tournaments. If you focus on making sure your child is playing at the level where he has the most fun and skill development than there isn't a problem.

If you want to say he played at the highest level in the best tournaments than be prepared to play with the big (and maybe older) boys.

I think when a team signs up for a tournament they sign up to play against players that are the same age as them. When coaches and programs cheat because no one is checking the age of the players playing its an issue. Example my son born in 1999 plays on a 2017 team and plays in the AA bracket of his tournament and a team comes in that is registered as a 2017 but has 2015 graduates playing and parents from that team actually confirm it. That's cheating.

My son is not a holdback. He is a 2020 who meets the us lacrosse guidelines for u13. I am comfortable with him playing against older 2020 kids who may be older so I am fine with him playing in the aa division. If I wasn't I would have signed him up for another team that played at a lower level. When your son tries out for a club they tell you what types of tournaments you are going to and the types of opponents they will play. If you don't like the answer pick a different club instead of whining.

The idea that you can't figure out in advance what types of opponents you are going to face is silly.

Good luck on u13 with the 15 year olds this summer.

When the tournament you registered in doesn't have enough teams to make your AA Bracket, what happens then?? I bet the team that entered into the B Bracket has no say when all of a sudden they are playing againt those bigger/cheating AA teams.

The other news flash is...lacrosse isn't really growing anymore. The overall participation #s are up 3.5% this past year is weighted nearly all toward new high school seasonal players. That makes sense with the proliferation of public high schools in many regions adding lacrosse as a spring sport to be played on the HS football / soccer fields. By any measure the youth game has stopped growing and for valid reasons. Lacrosse is becoming I can pay so I can play sport, and the costs are high. It is a fun game, but so isn't hockey which is another very expensive sport. Right now baseball and soccer are growing at a much higher rate than lacrosse is, and those are mature sports with many millions more in the participation tables.

Sounds to me more like parents and kids are getting fed up beyond posting on forums and are voting with their feet. The club and events guys just ruined this sport. I hope in some way the sport can be taken back from the commercial guys. The beauty of this game is it could be played on any sandlot or field. Why don't kids go to the local school fields and play pick up lacrosse? You know, like kids who play basketball do...

I think some tournaments are clearly grade based and you know you will face holdbacks. I have no problem with that. As kids get older, even if they are good, I may need to play in an age based tournament where they actually enforce rules just so they can play kids their own age - and that may hurt recruiting prospects - but I can do that.

But I have been to 4-5 tournaments in the last 18 months that were stated to be either grade based or age based and the rules simply were enforced. Champions in a U division with 6 kids older than the stated 9/1 deadline. 7th graders playing 4th graders. 4th graders playing 6th graders. A grade-based tournament where all the divisions (except mine) were won by teams with a majority of kids in older grades.

Right now, clubs can and should vote with their feet and avoid such tournaments, but some of the ones above were very convenient and run by good people - they just weren't disciplined about enforcing age rules when supposedly weaker teams wanted to "play down", i.e., teams wanting to win more in a lower division.

I hope U.S. Lacrosse comes in with a carrot and a stick approach to reform many tournaments. Big grade based recruiting tournaments would then just continue as is and just need to actually enforce grade rules (See Rising Sons 2021 team and Edge teams).

P.S. - I do think the 9/1 cutoff needs to be moved to 8/1, however. Lots of August boys going to school with kids born later, versus earlier.

The other news flash is...lacrosse isn't really growing anymore. The overall participation #s are up 3.5% this past year is weighted nearly all toward new high school seasonal players. That makes sense with the proliferation of public high schools in many regions adding lacrosse as a spring sport to be played on the HS football / soccer fields. By any measure the youth game has stopped growing and for valid reasons. Lacrosse is becoming I can pay so I can play sport, and the costs are high. It is a fun game, but so isn't hockey which is another very expensive sport. Right now baseball and soccer are growing at a much higher rate than lacrosse is, and those are mature sports with many millions more in the participation tables.

Sounds to me more like parents and kids are getting fed up beyond posting on forums and are voting with their feet. The club and events guys just ruined this sport. I hope in some way the sport can be taken back from the commercial guys. The beauty of this game is it could be played on any sandlot or field. Why don't kids go to the local school fields and play pick up lacrosse? You know, like kids who play basketball do...

Hockey, baseball, and soccer - all have different cut-off dates during a calendar. As does lacrosse (August 31st/Sept 1st).

It's because of the season they play in. So, I hear you point all 2000, 2001s play together - but it doesn't work like that for multiple reasons.

Where are you getting this in-depth statistical research? Didn't know this was public information. Or is it that the growth of the sport exploded and you cannot expect the same statistical % growth year over year. Maybe 3.5% represents more players that played last year but the % is lower because the sport is become very saturated with player...

A healthy start for you to address your skepticism is the US Lacrosse web site which details participation figures. US soccer and US hockey have the same on their websites. Now you do know it is public information. The 3.5% does not represent a saturation point law of big figures for lacrosse. This sport is a tiny fraction of the participation in other sports like soccer and baseball. If you live on the east coast like I do, it is a good idea to also look outside to see if it is raining before calling someone stupid for putting a coat on.

There is only one thing about age verification and standards that we as parents should care about, and that is safety. The competitive advantage of kids who may be a year older is a sportsmanship debate but one that belongs low on the ladder. The indignation should be that it is unsafe and indefensible to put small for age kids out there with older/bigger kids playing down a year due to the school year math. Best of all worlds is for parents of smaller kids to have the limited discretion to put their kid out with kids same age who are bigger. No s&*# some kids are big for their age. That doesn't argue a point or validly diminish my point. 99% of us should not give a hoot about early recruiting because it won't be in play for our kids. But 100% of us as parents should agree our first duty is for kids to be safe. Why should a lacrosse parent really care about the sport of lacrosse? I don't know if I speak for everyone, but I won't have much if any interest in following lacrosse with much interest after my kids are done playing. Most of us would not stop the TV on a college lacrosse game if not for our kids playing the game and stoking some casual and temporary interest in it for the time being. We are failing to do that. We are failing the kids. We are basically rolling over and playing dead for club owners who would otherwise be middle school p.e. teachers who happened to be at the confluence of the easiest buck on earth to do these events.

Very well said. One of the reasons that parents of the holdbacks don't understand the frustration is that their kids are not at risk.

There is no cheating. There simply is no age requirement.

There is a market for kids that want to play with and against the best kids of their graduation year regardless of how old they are. There are some club owners who are serving that market. My us lacrosse qualifying u13 son plays with 15 year olds on his middle school team in the spring. I am fine with him playing against 15 year olds in the summer. The websites of the tournaments he is going to state that the AA 2020 division is not for most U13 teams and they have A and B divisions for the other teams. There is no cheating. There simply is no age requirement.

One responsibility of a tournament director is to match like teams. If a tournament director is misrepresenting or not enforcing the divisions or otherwise doing a poor job of ensuring a good experience for all the teams that come than the solution is to not go to those tournaments.

There is no need for some sort of age police. There is a need for club directors to make sure they are going to well run tournaments where there kids will be safe. Problems arise when the club directors try to save money by going to cheaper tournaments or find it easier to say that the other teams are cheating than to say that they should be playing in a lower division or the other teams were just better.

Ludicrous. What other youth sport allows kids 2, maybe 3 years apart to play together when there is so much contact between the players. I don't see how the marginal benefit of playing kids 2 years older (unless they are always playing older kids, it is marginal) is worth the risk.

Now, as always, someone will come along and say "well maybe then your kid should not play lacrosse". Nope, sorry, my kid is a stand out 2019AA, but put him up against 16 year olds and it's just no contest.

If you were focused on bragging than your son is a standout AA player and winning all of the time than it would be a problem but fortunately that isn't you.

Ludicrous. What other youth sport allows kids 2, maybe 3 years apart to play together when there is so much contact between the players. I don't see how the marginal benefit of playing kids 2 years older (unless they are always playing older kids, it is marginal) is worth the risk.

Now, as always, someone will come along and say "well maybe then your kid should not play lacrosse". Nope, sorry, my kid is a stand out 2019AA, but put him up against 16 year olds and it's just no contest.

Ha, funny. Merely deflecting the parents who say "go play badminton"

What I find strange is that there are a number of parents who are only asking for what other sports work hard to provide - a level playing field that is also safe given the inherent risks of the sport.

Yet there is a contingent here who for some reason thinks that this is an odd thing to expect, fortunately that isn't you.

It isn't odd to expect a safe level playing field and if someone wants to create the lacrosse equivalent of pop warner football with birth certificates, Id cards etc. they are welcome to do that and I can't imagine anybody objecting.

What I object to is the notion that US Lacrosse should somehow mandate and enforce those procedures for all tournaments. The reality is that lots of players and their parents enjoy grade based tournaments with no age requirements and believe them to be safe and fair. It really doesn't bother me if a 15 year old attack man plays 2020 and scores on my 13 year old son. It is important to my son that he plays with his friends and classmates from the same grade.

Nobody forces anyone to participate in grade based tournaments just as nobody should force all tournaments to be age based with strict enforcement.

I wonder if you will feel the same way of someday your 13 year old has his arm broken by a 15 year old.....