BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Age Verification

You're going to hold your kid back purely for athletic reasons? Well it looks like we have the number one pick for idiot parents of the year. SMH.

Are you an idiot!

"...The reality is that lots of players and their parents enjoy grade based tournaments with no age requirements and believe them to be safe and fair..."

yeah lots of holdback parents. Noone likes to play in a grad eabse which is assumed (make an assout of me) to be age appropriate.

Those that what to challenge their sons can play up willingly but no one can truly do that because you don't know who is held back the year above.

The hold back concept only worked when few did it now many are and it really muddies the water!

@#$%!&$#@@ %^&**$# ^&*(*^$ @#$%!&*^ &^$^ boys that play up on Varsity know what they are getting as far as refs and rules. Sure a missed call can happen but it is all organized and coordinated. That is the issue, these tournaments need some set of consistent rules and policies to abide by.

I would suspect many of the underclassmen playing varsity are on the older side of the spectrum. There is a reason not many 13 years olds are playing varsity. With LI heading into the playoffs next week I doubt you can name a team with a 13 year old playing meaningful minutes on a team. I doubt there is more than (25) 14 years olds for that matter.

This part of the season they are 15/16/17/18.

You are a holdback apologise who must have some dealing with holdbacks..coaching, son, etc.. Youth sports is not about satisfying clubs and parents like you...It is about youth sports..School teams are where you get your advantage...not screwing up youth sports for you and your type of thinking.

I don't have any dealings with holdbacks. I have four sons who have run the gamut of athletic ability and when they matured.

One of my sons didn't play sports. One matured late and has had fun playing at a B level in the summer. Another played at more of an A level and the last one matured early and is age qualifying but has fun playing with his classmates (no holdbacks but a few summer birthdays) at the AA 2020 level. He does play one age based tournament where they play u-15.

I like the current system because if you are realistic about your son's abilities and maturity level you can find a team that plays tournaments where the level of play is appropriate. Most of the athletic holdbacks play in the AA divisions. You probably shouldn't play your son in a 2020 AA tournament if you aren't comfortable with him playing in a u-15B tournament. You probably shouldn't play 2019 AA if you aren't comfortable playing in a u-15 tournament that allows high schoolers.

I also think the safety concerns are overblown. All of the kids on my son's AA 2020 team are there because they were successful playing with older boys on their middle school teams. If some eighth grader decides to reclass and play down it is no different than what they played against all spring. It is just not a big deal.

I coached for years in Pop Warner football. Dealing with all of the birth certificates, pictures for the rosters and the weigh-ins was a huge hassle. I really enjoy going out in the summer and just watching the kids play.

What level your son plays at doesn't make you a better or worse parent. Look at the system as it is rather than what you think it should be and make your decisions and you can find competition that is appropriate for your child.

Its the same conversation, over and over. Why dosent this sport, like every other sport just use a cutoff date. , why does football, baseball, hockey, even soccer use a date. Why is this so hard. This stupid thread once and for all can come to an end.

I don't have any dealings with holdbacks. I have four sons who have run the gamut of athletic ability and when they matured.

One of my sons didn't play sports. One matured late and has had fun playing at a B level in the summer. Another played at more of an A level and the last one matured early and is age qualifying but has fun playing with his classmates (no holdbacks but a few summer birthdays) at the AA 2020 level. He does play one age based tournament where they play u-15.

I like the current system because if you are realistic about your son's abilities and maturity level you can find a team that plays tournaments where the level of play is appropriate. Most of the athletic holdbacks play in the AA divisions. You probably shouldn't play your son in a 2020 AA tournament if you aren't comfortable with him playing in a u-15B tournament. You probably shouldn't play 2019 AA if you aren't comfortable playing in a u-15 tournament that allows high schoolers.

I also think the safety concerns are overblown. All of the kids on my son's AA 2020 team are there because they were successful playing with older boys on their middle school teams. If some eighth grader decides to reclass and play down it is no different than what they played against all spring. It is just not a big deal.

I coached for years in Pop Warner football. Dealing with all of the birth certificates, pictures for the rosters and the weigh-ins was a huge hassle. I really enjoy going out in the summer and just watching the kids play.

What level your son plays at doesn't make you a better or worse parent. Look at the system as it is rather than what you think it should be and make your decisions and you can find competition that is appropriate for your child. [/quote]

You are full of it.. One breath " I dont have any dealing with holdbacks " Yet your son is on on a grade based team. You are a apologist for grade based youth sports. Pretty simple.

Age makes a huge difference at these youth levels of play. And when you have a few years of training along with being older .. 6-8 grade the difference really comes out. After 9th many boys are growing so the difference is starting to be less. But by that time, the kids that played the most get the upper hand and that is the holdbacks and kids that are true athletics. If you are average to good...you would be better off holding you kid back... You wont be better than the true athletics ..but you will be better than most average ones......There is only so many true athletes playing lacrosse. Most go to money sports...

Somehow people like you think certain kids (holdbacks) should get an advantage at youth sports. I dont along with all other team sports that go by age.

And the BS about pop warner and hassle of cards. Soccer has many more players than Lacrosse yet they have no problem keeping youth soccer at proper age with cards. Really easy system. But once again the Bizarro world of lacrosse ..lets give special privileges to certain kids...CraZY

Because Lacrosse special privileged players (holdbacks) get no advantage to playing against proper age children.

How True

Why is it so hard for the age based proponents to understand that changing to age based doesn't make things any better for the vast majority of players? In a lot of areas of the country boys play for their middle schools in the spring so it doesn't matter what us lacrosse says or does from the sixth grade on.

In the summer teams can choose tournaments by whether they want to play holdback teams or not so it doesn't matter then either.

Trying to get the whole country to change from a grade based system that they enjoy for what is primarily a npyll problem is silly.

Frankly I don't care what the Crabs do or don't do. Change the npyll rules and leave the rest of us out it.

Even better if you really want to solve the problem get the NCAA to ban early recruiting. Most of the abuses stem from the pressure on eighth and ninth graders to stand out so they can commit early.

Its so obvious in pop warner that the top teams are full of older lighters. That one year makes a huge difference

This issue never has been about school teams.. Youth should be age based..Pretty simple concept that is hard for the special privileged to accept.

I do agreee that early recruiting has helped drive this along..

You aren't going to stop parents from holding back kids for kindergarten and in middle school. Yes lacrosse is one reason this happens but there are also other benefits to a given kid being held back; lack of maturity, academic struggles, etc. it's not always about lacrosse performance. The grade based system ship has sailed largely due to college recruiting practices. A better solution is limit the number of holdbacks a middle school club team can have (perhaps 4 per club team) and require birth certificates or state issued ID's for validation for leagues and tournaments.

It should be grade based with a cutoff and roster like football. But it still doesnt matter because the rules will NEVER BE ENFORCED. The leagues and tournament bodies that make the rules blindly look away while taking the money. Club X enters 5 teams in each of your tournaments are you really going to complain? Team Y says if they dont bring in older/out of town/ringer kids then they cant field a team and hence cant pay you... who can turn away a check i mean player?

Edge Lacrosse is the epitome of what is wrong with youth lacrosse. Registering teams down an age bracket is pure cheating. Coming to a tournament this summer. You are forewarned.

But all the kids will do a PG year later..So that makes it ok in bizzaro lacrosse world..And they think that the Maryland holdbacks shouldnt be the only special privileged players..They want their rights to play down in age too...

Maybe you can rev the Iroc and scare them big Canadians away.

The scary thing is that you feel as if you are funny or clever with the Iroc joke.
You go ahead and use that 30 year old joke, and we will all continue to be happy that we don't live anywhere near Baltimore.

well I thought it was funny. The LI tough guy routine gets a little old quick.

I guess the Edge Lacrosse program issue has indeed been beaten to death. Registering each team down an age group is certainly deplorable, but none of us on this board can influence their program practices. The tournament directors are culpable. As long as each parent is forewarned of the age disparity (its the program registering the team down, not parents), I'm fine with allowing my son to play. Disclosure will set you free.

Yes, clearly it is only edge lacrosse reclassifying kids. Sweetlax, Crabs, 91, LI, Mesa, Clams, Denver elite,3d noooooooooo none of them do it. Quit bashing our Canadian friends who add so much to this game.

Get your facts straight. Edge doesn't reclassify. They register their teams down an age bracket. There is a very significant difference. It's systemic.

Does a Rose smell so sweet even if you call it another name!!

If a team has 3-4 kids who reclassified, is that the same as an entire 2020 team playing in a 2021 division (for instance)? Of course not. The parents are holding their kids back, Edge is simply playing teams down.

Why wouldn't all clubs simply begin to register their teams down a year in order to dominate?

Comments, rose?

The sentence below is right from the rule book governing New England boarding schools athletic age eligibility

"Age: NEPSAC regulations state that a student who is 19 years of age or younger on September 1st of a given school year is eligible to compete in interscholastic athletics."

So If you're wondering why the Laxachusetts players look a lot older, the rule above explains it. If you play at a prep school governed by NEPSAC you can enter your senior year as a 19 year old, turn 20 after September first, and you are eligible. All but four players on the 2018 Laxachusetts team fall into the above definition (they'll be 19/20 years old their |Senior year) according to one of the dads we spoke to down at Adrenaline. It is legal, but as Ty Xander tweeted out, there is a pretty big physical difference between those Laxachusetts teams and the Long Island teams they played, whose players will be 17/18 year old seniors, not 19/20 year old seniors playing under NEPSAC.

Just FYI...New [lacrosse] State:

NYSPHSAA, Inc.
BYLAWS and ELIGIBILITY STANDARDS


1.AGE AND GRADE: Regulation of the Commissioner of Education: A student shall be eligible for interschool competition in grades 9, 10, 11 and 12 until his/her nineteenth birthday. If the age of nineteen years is reached on or after July 1, the student may continue to participate during that school year in all sports.

NY State regs seems to be more reasonable imo.

Laxachusetts was caught playing kids on two teams at NLF over the weekend but games were not stopped nor were they disqualified. If you saw their 2020 team, you know which kids were playing down. Shameful

More like typical!

US Lacrosse has no balls and defers to the clubs so this will never ever change. Go to a national database with player cards that must be shown at check in. Its tougher to check in a soccer team at a tournament than it is to get a passport. But the teams are all LEGAL!

Until a child is SERIOUSLY injured (not JUST a broken arm, wrist, hand...hip) there will be no outcry. Soccer and hockey are doing it correctly. At least enforce current rules and regs with vigor. Protect the kids.

Parents and teams don't want it fixed as lacrosse has turned into a Me First just get recruited sport. Its almost never about the team only individuals. So if its only about your kid nobody care about what's good for the sport and safety

To answer the comment that "US Lacrosse has no balls" I will say this.
After meeting with a USL rep the answer seems simple enough.
Privately run tournaments that are not sanctioned by USL can obviously not be controlled by them. Private tournent directors can choose to look the other way and concerning age classification and they certainly do.

One of the measures currently in place it to have USL sanction these tournaments giving them the ability to oversee many aspects including age.

I wonder how many clubs and/or parents will not allow their teams and kids to play in Un-sanctioned USL tournaments.

If the US Lacrosse logo and signage is visible then it is sanctioned.
If you see the logo and signage at a private un-sanctioned tournament you need to contact USL in Baltimore immediately.

How many of you would support US Lacrosse sanctioned tournaments and avoid the private ones? That's the real question.

A definite YES!!

Everyone makes us be registered with US lax before tryouts. US Lax COULD go to the hammer and cut some people off but the problem is that CR and clubs like the YJ's wield a tremendous amount of power its almost like the ncaa vs SEC football. The conference is way more powerful than the governing body and renders them almost insignificant

How will sanctioning events prevent programs from registering teams down?

Parents reclassify kids, Edge Lacrosse enters teams in divisions one year younger than their age/grade.

How does an organization get insurance for a non-sanctioned event? I thought that was the only actual benefit of USL. Obviously they don't keep kids safe by taking a check from a manufacturer who provided "testing" and slapping a sticker on helmets.

They need to act like governing bodies in hockey and soccer. seems to me kids still get recruited in those sports.

They will apparently be age based.

SCPAL board had the opportunity implement a photo registration system like football and actually voted it down. Start there.

Do you really think the major Long Island tournament organizers who are affiliated, owned or dependent to the major clubs need or want US Lacrosse in Maryland to "sanction" their tournaments to get teams to play?

Give me a break. USL is a joke here on LI. May as well get the tournaments certified kosher by a Rabi or blessed by the church.

Many already are but enforcement is the key.