BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Girls Spring 2014 High School Varsity Lacrosse

Seen them play twice this season. Officiated them in the fall and last spring. Coached against them last fall. Have had at least one my daughters that has played against them over the past 6 years. And, an overall knowledge of the game. The playoff teams in D3 from last year are markedly better than them this year too. They are the third or fourth team talent wise behind Mt. Sinai and BBP.

On behalf of the band, I hope I passed the audition....

Both those close games had all subs in

As an official it's disrespectful to publish the comments you did. As a coach it's disrespectful to publish the comments you did. As a parent it's disrespectful to publish the comments you did. Those are the things you said you were right?
As a US Lacrosse Director I have a problem with your coaching and officiating aliases. As a fellow parent I'm disappointed in you. As a moderator I know who you are and what town your from. I suggest you think twice before you continue.

You and the band are fired. Literally Coach or should I say Mr. Official. Enjoy the Motor Inn...know what I mean?

BRAVO HOP

Our HS has a Team Manager. They have NO idea what they are doing and do report scoring/does the book. The coaches should do this and get it right. In 4 games almost everyone is wrong. Coaches should be proactive in making corrections as well when they knowit is wrong. Our coach does nothing about that either.

And there is no D3, I assume you meant Class C but then again, I forgot that they made the playoffs last year in class C.
Anyway, the name MR. Official reminds me of the Mr. Manager bit in Arrested Development.

BTW I am glad that some of the negativity is being filtered out and people are getting called out on nasty comments!

Commack?

Besides the fact that coaches are too busy to do this during games, it's a sad fact that some of them have vested interests in padding stats, too. Gotta make sure the player you're promoting has the numbers and gets the post-season awards. Bitter, yes, but I've been around HS sports for ten years now and I've seen it. And don't think it ends in college because I've seen stats padded there, too, just to make sure a high-profile player's stats remain in the national ranking. That's when I learned you can get an assist when you were several touches away from the ball. Sarcasm intended.

Its very simple. Just pay a teacher to take the stats for your team.

You are right the school teams mean nothing to the college coaches however, parents start padding the summer team resume with made varsity in 7th grade, all county in 8th, all state in 9th etc. Those awards are purely political and a result of stat padding but they are on their bio's just like it will be when its on their college bio page. So if HS means nothing to college coaches then who does it mean something to? Travel Parents!

Boy do you have a complex. Sounds like you have a ready made excuse for everything.

Actually the poster doesn't have a complex but a pretty accurate view of the situation. I agree with some points. I disagree that awards are purely political. The awards are not PURELY political at all. Politics may have a hand sometimes but talent always wins in the end. Club lax however, has certainly become the place college coaches go to shop and buy.

Too bad some immature people can only muster personal attacks and name calling.

If you don't think over zealous travel parents and girls take advantage of being on weak HS teams with weak HS coaches to push their own recruiting agendas by padding their stats then you haven't been watching girls HS lacrosse lately.

Take a look at the Nassau county scoring leaders - players from Island trees, Wheatley, Divsion, PLanedge, Herricks none of these teams ever win anything. Where are the GC kids? the Manhasset kids? Those teams play as a full multi line unit and have been since grade school. I don't think that's an excuse but a fact

I can tell you with certainty that the kids at the schools you mentioned are not getting any advantage with college coaches due to their stats. Regardless of your accusations of "padding stats" or not. I know many college coaches and have been around the game for 40 years and am actively involved today with recruiting and governing. College coaches look at how the kid plays and how they will fit into their system. They also want to see the athletic ability and IQ more so than the lax ability and stats.
Because your opinion differs doesn't mean it's correct and I will go with the words and opinions I hear first hand from these coaches rather than emotional opinions from an anonymous parent any day.

To the parents of kids who don't get the stats and glory I will say keep pushing yourself 110% and fight for the ground balls and be a vocal and positive visible presence on the field. Do well in the classroom as well because these are the things that get you recruited.

I agree whole heartedly college coaches don't care so why pad the stats? Why not share the ball so the team becomes stronger?4vK

Here are some reasons: name in the paper, player/parents believe numbers tell the story, selfishness, game IQ that doesn't allow them to see the field and open players... I'm sure others can add their observations.

BINGO POWDER! Travel Lacrosse has taken a team game and made it very selfish. Even the travel parents will tell you it's not about their summer team records but only about getting their daughter seen and committed. If it's all about me in the summer, why wouldn't it be all about me on the HS team? Answer is it is for many of the kids and its hurting the sport. It's burying and driving out the bottom 90% of players while the top 10% pad those stats in meaningless games that college coaches don't care about.

A few observations that none of you will agree with or believe. My daughter was probably one of those stat paddlers you all detest . Played on a middle of the road team at best , 2 years above 500 hundred record , 2 years below . On average probably had 6 goals for every 4 assists. Never scored more than 4 goals against a team they would beat by more than ten. Simply put she got a lot of points because her team was not very good and they looked to her on offense , be it for a goal or assist . As far as colleges , they did ask for high school stats , how much they cared I don't know . As far as grades , most if not all including a few top ten academic schools just cared that she was over the minimum they needed to get her in , it was actually disappointing in that she was and still is a very good student (top of her high school class) . Believe it or not some of these stat padders are just trying to win and if having the ball in their stick is tbe best way to do that so be it . See it in basketball all the time , you have a few shooters then the other role players , is what it is .

I hope you're right. It just seems like coaches ( travel included) play the girls who go to the goal the most, even if they are defenders and don't pass to open players. I think good field vision is important but it often goes unnoticed.

Can't have it both ways, if coaches allow stat builders even in blow out games, then don't act shocked on why the bench keeps getting smaller and smaller.

Hs managers are usually a student

If you want the stats done correctly get in touch with your booster club president & Ask him to hire someone. You can usually get a teacher to take the stats for a reasonable amount.

Who cares except the stat padders parents? I'm pretty sure they get who won and loss right. Me Me Me

My town pays a teacher and the stats are kept accurately with no stat padders on the team .

Can anyone tell me where to find info regarding the "washout" rate of D1 lax players?
If you look at many D1 rosters, there seems to be a very small number of juniors and seniors on the team. Have they all left the program because they finally realized that academics are why they went to college?
Playing club now?
Have the students and parents now realized that the "cool aid" was actually poisoned. That they likely got little, or no athletic money to go to a D1 program, but they did buy the sweatshirt. And now have huge student loans?
Anyone shed some light on the mis-marketing of a sport these girls love.

The only league that might be weaker than Suffolk Division 1 Girls is Suffolk Boys League 1.

Why so weak?

Not that difficult they usually get the goal scorers correct so I assume we are talking about assists and saves. Just hold your coaches accountable, they are ultimately the ones who are in charge of making sure the book is correct.If you think something truly underhanded is going on then film the game and give the coach a copy for their review.

Division 2 has more affluent school districts, parents can pay for travel, camps, clinics, nice sticks, private lessons. This sport takes money, natural athleticism will only take you so far.

Bald Bear has done some nice work tracking players and has it at about a 50% wash out. In the Junior and Senior years when kids aren't getting to touch the ball (high schools and PAL take note) kids quit for school, internships, social commits or because they just don't love the game as much as their parents thought. A 20 year old has a louder voice about what they want to do compared to a 14 year old travel player in the back seat being driven to MD on the summer weekends. Kids just want to play and D1 sports are a fulltime job. When D1 student athletes say they spend more time on sports than studies that is a problem!

Maybe Bald Bear can comment?

Your a pin-head, first of all its early in the season and you don't know the "facts". Every town/school district is different and ability levels are different some play the sport more seriously than others so stats may be slanted one way or another, but to bash those kids for doing their best is silly. Is some of it selfish motivation maybe but maybe just maybe some of those kids enjoy playing and have better ability than others. If you want facts go and ask those coaches about each individual maybe he/she can shine a little light on the situation. To compare some of those schools to perennial powers is ridiculous but there are talented kids playing all over Long Island. Here is a fact last year of the top 20 point getters only 3 were from Nassau all of which are or will be playing D1 lacrosse, all of these girls on the list including Suffolk and Private schools are motivated some with good reason others not so much. Basically it's not for us to judge, worry about your own child and enjoy watching them play hopefully they are enjoying it as well.

While I disagree with the above poster and think SWR team is possibly top ten in all Suffolk ,a big part of that being one of the top goalies, I think he should have the right to his opinion ,did not single out any kid etc..Seems to me you may have outed this guy as I think I may know who he is partially by his own comments and partially by the Hop

In Nassau the reason why GC and Sett go deep every year is because they run out multiple strong lines. Teams that get all their points from a few players never do anything come playoff time. It's a team game when played the right way.

I had a problem,with his first comment which was"Smithtown East??? They lost to SWR who are horrible" and I gave my answer. Wouldn't you expect more from coach and ref than they are horrible?

This poster was addressed by me because if an official says they play dirty don't you think he now has a bias? How can he fairly officiate a game? That's my issue. And Section 11s issue as well.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion except when an official shows his bias. It then becomes an issue of competency. Anyone who has seen SWR play knows they are not horrible. Just ask Smithtown East and Rocky Point. Also they lost to a good Hauppauge team by 2.

How are you qualified to make this comment??[/quote]

Seen them play twice this season. Officiated them in the fall and last spring. Coached against them last fall. Have had at least one my daughters that has played against them over the past 6 years. And, an overall knowledge of the game. The playoff teams in D3 from last year are markedly better than them this year too. They are the third or fourth team talent wise behind Mt. Sinai and BBP.

On behalf of the band, I hope I passed the audition....

[/quote]

While I disagree with the above poster and think SWR team is possibly top ten in all Suffolk ,a big part of that being one of the top goalies, I think he should have the right to his opinion ,did not single out any kid etc..Seems to me you may have outed this guy as I think I may know who he is partially by his own comments and partially by the Hop [/quote]

This poster was addressed by me because if an official says they play dirty don't you think he now has a bias? How can he fairly officiate a game? That's my issue. And Section 11s issue as well.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion except when an official shows his bias. It then becomes an issue of competency. Anyone who has seen SWR play knows they are not horrible. Just ask Smithtown East and Rocky Point. Also they lost to a good Hauppauge team by 2.
[/quote]

Off topic so I will make it my last post about it but to think most refs who have done so for a long time do not have some bias against certain teams is just naïve .They are human so of course they do. My post was really more about its supposed to be an anonymous forum and his opinion should not be censored just because we do not agree with him. You have many who come on here calling whole travel organizations Thugs etc., while their opinion may be juvenile it should not be banned.

the reason is nothing more than better players. Every team would run out multiple players if they had them.

Seen them play twice this season. Officiated them in the fall and last spring. Coached against them last fall. Have had at least one my daughters that has played against them over the past 6 years. And, an overall knowledge of the game. The playoff teams in D3 from last year are markedly better than them this year too. They are the third or fourth team talent wise behind Mt. Sinai and BBP.

On behalf of the band, I hope I passed the audition....

[/quote]

While I disagree with the above poster and think SWR team is possibly top ten in all Suffolk ,a big part of that being one of the top goalies, I think he should have the right to his opinion ,did not single out any kid etc..Seems to me you may have outed this guy as I think I may know who he is partially by his own comments and partially by the Hop [/quote]

This poster was addressed by me because if an official says they play dirty don't you think he now has a bias? How can he fairly officiate a game? That's my issue. And Section 11s issue as well.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion except when an official shows his bias. It then becomes an issue of competency. Anyone who has seen SWR play knows they are not horrible. Just ask Smithtown East and Rocky Point. Also they lost to a good Hauppauge team by 2.
[/quote]

Off topic so I will make it my last post about it but to think most refs who have done so for a long time do not have some bias against certain teams is just naïve .They are human so of course they do. My post was really more about its supposed to be an anonymous forum and his opinion should not be censored just because we do not agree with him. You have many who come on here calling whole travel organizations Thugs etc., while their opinion may be juvenile it should not be banned. [/quote]

While I disagree with the above poster and think SWR team is possibly top ten in all Suffolk ,a big part of that being one of the top goalies, I think he should have the right to his opinion ,did not single out any kid etc..Seems to me you may have outed this guy as I think I may know who he is partially by his own comments and partially by the Hop [/quote]

This poster was addressed by me because if an official says they play dirty don't you think he now has a bias? How can he fairly officiate a game? That's my issue. And Section 11s issue as well.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion except when an official shows his bias. It then becomes an issue of competency. Anyone who has seen SWR play knows they are not horrible. Just ask Smithtown East and Rocky Point. Also they lost to a good Hauppauge team by 2.
[/quote]

Off topic so I will make it my last post about it but to think most refs who have done so for a long time do not have some bias against certain teams is just naïve .They are human so of course they do. My post was really more about its supposed to be an anonymous forum and his opinion should not be censored just because we do not agree with him. You have many who come on here calling whole travel organizations Thugs etc., while their opinion may be juvenile it should not be banned. [/quote]

[/quote]



Seen them play twice this season. Officiated them in the fall and last spring. Coached against them last fall. Have had at least one my daughters that has played against them over the past 6 years. And, an overall knowledge of the game. The playoff teams in D3 from last year are markedly better than them this year too. They are the third or fourth team talent wise behind Mt. Sinai and BBP.

On behalf of the band, I hope I passed the audition....

[/quote]

While I disagree with the above poster and think SWR team is possibly top ten in all Suffolk ,a big part of that being one of the top goalies, I think he should have the right to his opinion ,did not single out any kid etc..Seems to me you may have outed this guy as I think I may know who he is partially by his own comments and partially by the Hop [/quote]

This poster was addressed by me because if an official says they play dirty don't you think he now has a bias? How can he fairly officiate a game? That's my issue. And Section 11s issue as well.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion except when an official shows his bias. It then becomes an issue of competency. Anyone who has seen SWR play knows they are not horrible. Just ask Smithtown East and Rocky Point. Also they lost to a good Hauppauge team by 2.
[/quote]

Off topic so I will make it my last post about it but to think most refs who have done so for a long time do not have some bias against certain teams is just naïve .They are human so of course they do. My post was really more about its supposed to be an anonymous forum and his opinion should not be censored just because we do not agree with him. You have many who come on here calling whole travel organizations Thugs etc., while their opinion may be juvenile it should not be banned. [/quote]

1-He is an official publishing his bias publicly. Therefor opens himself up for scrutiny personally. Would have not commented if he was just another anonymous pot stirrer.

2-His post was not censored.

3-Other posts calling organizations "thugs" is not even close to the same thing and they are not censored either. Not sure why you chose that word.

4-I am far from naive and the bias officials have will be dealt with on a case by case basis and will not get swept under the rug as in the past. They are charged with calling games fairly not based on a preconceived bias. Obviously.

5-I'm not sure why you would have an issue with an official publicly voicing a bias and getting called out on it. You should be more disturbed with his comments.

Tell your daughter to pass the ball, I bet you would be surprised