BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Girls Spring 2014 High School Varsity Lacrosse

It is very simple, The best teams bring up and play the best players.

I would bet that if you were to look at all of the top teams on the Island you would find that they bring up and play "the best" players. Some will have 8th graders playing.

The best coaches will identify the best players. If a coach can't identify the best players the team will not be competitive with the best teams. They will win some games against weak teams but they will not compete with the best.

Athletics should help to teach our children many things. Teaching children that they are "entitled" to something is a lesson they should not learn.

The best players should be on the team and they should play.

Show me a team that cares more about a players seniority than their skill, athleticism and commitment and I will show you a team that is noncompetitive and dysfunctional.

Why bring a kid up to a team that is only playing 500 ball? What's the point? Not like the team is going to win states.

I have been watching Varsity girls Lacrosse games for many years . I see many 8th graders playing on Varsity and rarely do they stand out on the stat sheet. They do stand out by being smaller and lighter than most of the players on the team they are playing. Often they are the ones getting blown off a ground ball by a junior or senior that is 50 lbs heavier than they are or dusting themselves off after getting knocked over on the re-defend.

Agree that some 8th graders that have been brought up do not belong, but others dominate. Who knows what some varsity coaches are thinking, but there is no denying that there are some girls that should, could and do play varsity level easily. Pick an average HS team and to play the 11th grade YJ blue team. Not a competitive game, playing the 10 th or 9th grade team the YJ teams still get the win. You are down to 8th grade before you would give the HS team the edge, and only a select few HS teams would I give the ed. So there you have it, top club, top team 8th grade girls playing on HS level.

Can someone list 5 or 10 of the top 2015 players on the island? it does not have to be "The Top 10" just 10 of the top players from the class of 2015.

Then tell us where they were playing in the 8th or 9th grade.

Dominate?? Please tell me more than 1 or 2 that will dominate this year on a winning team?

No one will name any individual players and their 8th grade status as per your request.

OK. How about this.

can someone who has an idea of who five or ten of the top 2015 players are please just tell us where the majority played when they were in the 8th and 9th grade.

3 played varsity in 8th grade.

2 played JV in 10th grade.

No names, I am just curious and I do not know the players or where they played.

Thanks.

There is a 2017 "Top" girl who recently committed but has yet to play varsity in our town and is a non impact club player. It all depends on what each coach sees or feels is a fit for their program. At least that's what they say..

Are you responding to the question above? What is your point?

If the girl does not play varsity and is not an impact player on her club why would you refer to her as a Top player?

What is your point?

True top high school teams ( G.C., 'set, W.M., F-dale Wantaugh) do not need to, nor do they bring up 8th graders (except the very rare occasion, then they are not "impact players).Only border line teams that need to fill gaps, and weak teams have 8th graders play up and become impact layers. Even then they are impacting only there team and not high school lacrosse in general. A stand out 8th grade impact player at W.F. or P.M. isn't even considered at a top high school mentioned above, and against those teams are exposed for the youth they are. As far as saying a 8th or 9th or 10th grade Y.J. team could compete with any of the above mentioned team is the cool-ade drunken ramblings of a fanatical mind.

That is the most ridiculous post I have seen in a long time.

I have nothing to do with the post above, but I could fill a page with more ridiculous posts than this one from just the past couple of days. Rather than resorting to hyperbole, can you articulate what makes this post so ridiculous. GC and Manhasset don't allow middle school girls to try out, so that's just a statement of fact. After that there are about 4 or 5 statements of opinion, none of which are outlandish. Not saying I agree with them or even followed this guy's ramblings, but to single out this post as the most ridiculous one you've seen in a long time is just lazy. If you have something to contribute to this silly argument, then please do.

Nope, nothing else to contribute other than it's ridiculous. Thanks!

Ward Melville does not allow 8th graders to try out. Coach hasn't brought up 9th graders in years.

So that's the perfect example. You don't bring up players every year, only every few years if player comes along that deserves it. That is the entire point of this discussion, consistently bringing up 8th graders every year you probably are getting girls playing over their heads at the varsity level. That is a far different situation than bringing up the standout player that comes along every few years if your lucky. And it is those girls who have no problem playing varsity. Not even all the girls on your clubs top team should be considered, honestly just the standout players, so we are talking small numbers here. A handful of the top girls from the top clubs your looking at maybe a dozen or so that fit the description. The problem here is parents who have kids playing travel feel they deserve it. Sorry but the 2nd3rd team YJ or white purple TG does not fit this description.

I am not an original poster, but wanted to give someone else's perspective. I agree that these younger kids cannot compete with the above mentioned top schools. But the original poster stated "many schools." They are not of the fanatical mind that you state as they never mentioned hanging with the top schools. My daughter is a junior on a Suffolk County middle of the road lacrosse high school. She would love to see some of the 7th and 8th graders get a chance. Although these girls may not match up physically, they blow away many on her team talent wise. Mainly because many of the older girls only pick up the stick from March to May. The point is, on many of these teams the younger girl doesn't have to be an "impact player", she just has to be better than the girls already out there. And they are. Some by leaps and bounds. But our district set limits on the number of girls eligible to be brought up because of parents with power who feel their daughter is "entitled" to be on the team because of their age and not because of their talent and/or athletism.

And if you truly don't think that the 2017 or 2018 blue teams cannot beat 75% of the High School Varsity teams on Long Island, YOU are of the fanatical mind.

all this could be a non issue if N.Y. had a 4 year varsity rule like other states

Are you talking boys or girls teams here?

Who or what are W.F. and P.M. ?

WM is not even close to Garden City, Manhasset, Farmingdale or Wantaugh.

Why would you even mention WM in the same sentence with the other schools unless you were talking about boys?

WM JV beat their V last year.

ok here we go. Most varsity teams that bring up a middles school player do so for one reason. They need to fill a roster. Districts with two or more feeder middle schools have plenty of bodies and don't need to pull up Small schools that are jr/sr combined have lower enrollment therefore they need younger girls to field a team. Schools like west bab pull up for almost every sport doesn't mean your kid is a superstar. schools like west islip or garden city are large and have plenty of grade appropriate athletes to play so girls will have to wait even if they are the best athlete in their grade or even more skilled than a 9th or 10th grader.

Look at what just happened at Huntington. They pulled a couple of 7/8 graders up to JV and several 9/10 graders quit so they had to go back to the 7/8 graders that didn't make it the first tryout and offer them spots on jv . It's gonna hurt their program operating like that.

You all sound ridiculous. There are some schools that are at or near the top on LI that bring kids up, there are some that don't. None of that proves whether moving a kid up helps the kids development or not. Will these kids who were moved up be the best players on Long Island this year, no, will they be the worst players on Long Island, no .Each situation is unique so the generalized statements are just silly. I have not seen any kid who was moved up to varsity at any program where I thought the kid was in way over their head, I am sure it happens but have not seen it.

Or did the coach bring up more girls on varsity to make more room on JV for her 7th grade daughter and some of her 7th grade friends?

WM and BS have had some great battles the past few years. They were some of the top teams in Suffolk and in WB. Both had some pretty good JV teams. both will be contenders in the next two years because they move up players.

That is exactly what happened. They brought up girls with no opposite hand and an inability to catch and throw.

You mean the 7th graders or the ones they brought up to varsity?

Shouldn't things slow down with pulling younger players. At some point there will be teams comprised of all girls that were pulled up early from consecutive years. Unless these now established players (once considered special enough to be pulled up early) are displaced by younger players there is no longer going to be varsity roster space for young standouts. They will need to go through the usual process of jv then varsity or straight to varsity as freshmen not middle schoolers.

I would imagine pulling up girls early happens more with small schools than bigger schools. My daughters class B squad has 1 8th grader on the roster. She is a very good player who is on YJ top team. I want to see how much she plays since we do have enough talented seniors and juniors.

The size of the school does not matter. Coaches who want to compete put the best players on the field. Sometimes there is an 8th grader in the mix most of the time there is not. The top teams usually have 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th graders contributing. For the most part, the best players play.

If schools go by the state testing procedures for selection classification, you should see a large drop off in the coming years of kids being brought up. Lets say its obvious that some schools are cheating with the physical tests as is but next year with the new standards very few of the girls would be able to pass the test and it will be even more obvious. I find it interesting that so many schools obviously cheat at the testing yet no one says anything about that.

Where do you find this information?

What are the new selection classification standards? What are the changes to the 6 components?

I am not aware of any changes that took place during the lake placid meeting. Please detail what you were told and where it is written as fact that changes are on the horizon.

That said, the standard is antiquated and needs a 'rehauling.

It is being changed.

Physical Fitness Test:
The President’s Physical Fitness Test has been selected
as the test for this process (there is no longer sport
specific test components), and the student must meet
the 85th percentile level for their age in 4 out of 5 test
components. If the student does not meet 4 of 5, the
student cannot apply for a waiver.

what are the test requiremnts?

47 situps in 1 minute
10.1 Shuttle run
8in Sit and reach
7:59 mile
2 pull ups
20 push ups

It all sounds good.. but the test is only as good as the faculty person watching .. or in the case of our school not watching. Several 8th girls with ability, who wanted to play up took the test, other students counted reps, managed clock etc.. guess what? they all passed. its basically a farce and only in place to CYA of the school.

there are few 8th grade girls that can do 20 actual push ups or 2 pull ups for that matter. The schools that obviously have cheated in the past will continue to do so. Hopefully this does not offend anyone but when you see a kid who is 20 or more pounds overweight there is no way they are passing these tests but because mommy or daddy have a connection or they can pass and throw they are moved up.I like what someone earlier proposed a central testing location where those that are going to be selectively classified go to get tested.

But if Mom is the Varsity Coach in Huntington you get to go JV with your friends.