BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Age Verification

US lacrosse just wants their membership fee and will continue to let the travel programs run the show. What's the first thing on everyone's tryout list? MUST BE REGISTERED WITH US LACROSSE. They remain a pom pom waving no teeth governing body

the people running the sport and the clubs are the biggest rules benders therefore the rules will never change, move on

Yes, please move on. It has been decreed! This whole discussion is nonsense!

Some people actually care about the safety of the kids playing the game. YOU move on....

This is what Steve Stenersen of USL Lacrosse had to say on subject of grade based teams on another forum back in June. I wish they would devote an issue of their mag on this subject.

The problem with grade-based segmentation in youth sports is, of course, that it's not in the best interests of kids. The different rates of physical and cognitive development at each age varies widely so, in contact sport like boys' lacrosse, it's simply not safe to allow kids of such varying ages and development levels to compete against each other. Nor does it reinforce the fundamental principles of fair play and fun that are essential to player retention in youth sports. Allowing the club "system" and associated recruiting events to determine what's best for your child is not only a clear conflict of interest...it's a tremendous abdication of responsibility by the primary consumers of a child's lacrosse experience - parents. As most people should know by now, sport-specialization at an early age, year-round play, and the belief that playing more games is essential to player development are all myths. Sport specialization and year-round play burn kids out, drive them out of sport at too early an age, and lead to what has become an epidemic of overuse injuries in developing bodies. And, contrary to popular belief, playing more games doesn't make a player better; too often it simply reinforces bad habits because the quality of coaching offered by club teams is so inconsistent. It's incredibly ironic that peer pressure among parents plays such a significant role in the decisions they make on behalf of their kids...as does fear of retribution against their children from club programs and their coaches. That fear, alone, should trigger a serious concern. Sadly, parental ego also plays a role at times. But none of those are justifiable excuses for parents to allow and enable the youth lacrosse "industry" to make decisions based on its own interests...not those of the children they are paid to best serve. The single biggest factor in determining a child's success on the athletic field is genetics, not how much you play or pay. The overwhelming majority of kids who play club lacrosse and attend recruiting events won't get a college scholarship or admissions preference to play lacrosse in college. Most won't even play at the high school level. Club programs and tournaments are not inherently bad, but they need to be held accountable to what's best for your child. In a free market economy, it's up to the consumer - us parents - to make that happen. Or not.

Great post. What I don't understand is if USL firmly believes that, then why don't they advocate it? Instead they state in their rule book "teams organized by single birth or grade are suggested." That to me sounds like they are indifferent which is used. They do incrementally more harm by going on to state "if a league needs to group two years/grades together, they should limit to no more than 24 months." That's the line that the holdbacks like to use: "USL is ok with a 24 month age differential." Bottom line, USL needs to actively promote single year age brackets, period. They are more concerned with trying to grow the sport (hence the flexibility in age brackets) than they are the safety of the kids.

its all about the money. until some poor child is seriously or fatally hurt by some child that started school late and then was held back a year. the game of lax is not a contact sport.its a collision sport just like football and hockey. its just a matter of time til this occurs.

Good point- having both football, hockey and lax players- it doesn't make sense to not follow what other long standing contact sports have learned over time and implemented to make it as safe as possible for youth participation. I think you are right/ it will take a kid being paralyzed or killed to make a change because no one is really advocating change where it counts. We love our club and coaches, but bottom line- it is still about business- which is about money.

This statement and attempt to scare the rule makers by threat of lawsuits and death is sickening.
Your argument quickly falls apart when you consider there may be two boys with exactly the same birthday, one is 4'11"-110lbs and the other is 5'10"-180lbs. Therefore, size differential is not age exclusive. If your argument is as stated you would need to adopt a height/weight classification system. A system that will never materialize. The system in place is adequate and will continue. Further, it is the choice of each player, parent and coach to refuse to participate in this sport within its guidelines. Best of luck to all.

Theres a big difference between a 5'10-180lb 13 yr old and a 5'10-180 15 yr old. Im not trying to scare anyone. My son plays on a elite travel team that always plays up a year or two. And it got a lil scary when we were a U13 team playin at NXT Cup in the U15 B division. You start getting into your third game of the day on a hot summer day and your boys don't have the stamina anymore and cant play at full speed like the older kids. Things can get very ugly. Thank God we escaped without injury but I can see it happening very easily. I always been a firm believer of playing up but as you get older the boys become bigger and faster and play the game at a different level. Lets start putting the kids safety and well being first and teach them the game of LAX in front of winning a tourney. You remember state titles and national championships. Not a medal from winning a tourney at Laxfest. Lets keep it real and do the right thing!!!!

Your post confuses me. Tell me if I'm understanding.
You placed your son on a team that plays UP at least two age groups as you explained and it got "a lil scary" because of factors you stated? Right so far?
Ok, then you are saying that kids should all play ON AGE right? Yet your kid plays UP and it makes you as a parent "scared". You then said "let's keep it real and do the right thing!!!"
I think you said there is a real danger of injury and/or death allowing age differential in lacrosse yet although you are "scared" you let your kid do it. That seems completely nuts if I'm following you correctly.....I mean your argument of course.

That's not the norm. That's the exception.

Your response is so detailed and eloquent. Lol
Uhm no...it's not the exception. It's quite common to have a big difference in height and weight amongst same age players.

Not the poster, but I read it as, maybe a true u13 team should not be allowed to play in the U15B division and we should all play in the correct age division, regardless of the glory, the titles, the wins. Let ALL the teams be held to the correct division- no playing up and no playing down. Tournament directors should not allow playing up, for the safety of the younger players and not allow playing down for the safety of younger players. Once you move past 8th grade- it should be allowed - play in a JV or Varsity division, as that is allowable in high school. Right now, it seems like you can pretty much register any team/players for whatever division you wish, as no one checks anyway.

These so called "elite" teams choose to play-up because they have a built in excuse when they lose. They enter "B" divisions so they can boast that they beat older teams, but if they lose they have all the excuses they want.

I agree....play in your own age division

I got the point it just seemed strange that the one calling for the enforcement of ON GRADE classifications is a parent who plays their kid UP and is scared when their kid is on the field. That's all. If you re read the post it makes no sense taking into account the source.

playing "up" is very different than playing down or against hold backs.

Lol...... it is not. Same age difference on the field playing against each other. Whether playing up or down makes no difference. Same argument you are all making.
Seems some people want it both ways. I say just stop bitching and complaining and have your kid play wherever he fits. Play up if you want. Hold back if you want. This IS kinda still America where there are choices and personal responsibility. No matter how hard some of you try to make everyone the same.
Remember, you do not have to participate in travel lax. It's not a right it's a privilege.

Lol...... it is not. Same age difference on the field playing against each other. Whether playing up or down makes no difference. Same argument you are all making.
Seems some people want it both ways. I say just stop bitching and complaining and have your kid play wherever he fits. Play up if you want. Hold back if you want. This IS kinda still America where there are choices and personal responsibility. No matter how hard some of you try to make everyone the same.
Remember, you do not have to participate in travel lax. It's not a right it's a privilege.
[/quote

Great outlook.. If I want my 14 year old to be the best can I have his team or him play against only 12 year olds? It is America now! But I think there is still some morality and rules/laws here..if only

Travel Lacrosse is a privilege????? GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!! Anyone with a checkbook can play that's a FACT!

The post said it's NOT A RIGHT. ITS A PRIVILEGE. Sorry you aren't familiar with that phrase. I'll explain. It means it's not a right for everyone and you can choose to play if you have the means (money, privilege). Hope that helps you out. Maybe you understand the post a bit better and DONT HAVE TO YELL! Lol...funny

Let me explain it like a six year old. Playing against a smaller kid your own age and a kid two years younger who is smaller is quite different. That is the point.
Eloquent enough for ya. No need to write an essay.

Then you are not smarter than a sixth grader. Height and weight is the issue not age. Got your point from the get go unfortunately.....

that is the most ridiculas analogy ever>
A 6`2 17 y/o is not the same as a 6`2 13 year you have to figure in muscle growth.
When would you like the age disparity to stop 1 year 2 3 why not go too- young for your grade- and double hold back. Do you think that is fair.
Look at Pop warner study where that have strict age cut off- team that is (Oldest) closest to age cut off wins 80% of time.
We are not taking years here just months.

It is a enormous advantage to hold your son back. It has to be regulated or it will just get out of control

well said. much more eloquent than I could have put it. this is it in a nutshell.

you missed the point entirely. there are third graders the size of sixth graders who wouldn't stand a chance against a much smaller sixth grader. Age is the issue. especially for the younger kids.

If you are arguing that age is the main issue and reason for concern then why does football use height/weight guidelines to sort out players as opposed to age? It would seem to me that if physical injury due to contact is the concern then the height/weight classification should be preferred. I've been following this debate and that seems to be the most appropriate fix. Thoughts??

That works for football, because of its very short, defined season. Chances are a kid won't outgrow his team over a couple of months. Lacrosse, which is now a year round sport, makes that solution impractical, because of the challenges of having to continuously replace players mid-season, as the grow beyond weight/height limits. I think parents and kids are ok playing against bigger kids as long as they are the same age. I agree with previous posters, that even if a sixth and eight grader are the same height and weight, muscle development in the eight grader will typically make him stronger and quicker.

football, for the most part, is not as skilled as lacrosse. if your a 5'6" 130# 6th grader in football your on either the offense or defensive line. run into the kid in front of you and take up as much room as possible, and he's very successful. Put a 4'10 85# 6th grade kid against the same 5' 10" kid in lacrosse and the big kid is left in the dust. Add stick skills and awareness to the smaller kid and it's a total wash. Put the same 4'10" kid against an equally skilled 5'5" 95# 8th grader and bad things are going to happen.

Unfortunately some parents cannot face the fact that their kid is unable to compete against his own age cohorts, so they hold the kid back. The irony is they run around claiming parents and kids who are younger need to man up and deal with it, yet they do not expect their kids to man up against children their own age so they have to play with and take classes with younger kids.

I would have some sympathy if the holdbacks were unusually small compared to players of the same age or had learning difficulties instead of pushy parents.

The football issue about height and weight are irrelevant in at least Suffolk county PAL. There are no weight restrictions in SCPAL. It is strictly age with birth certificate affidavits. If you are held back in kindergarten or whenever, you play with your age appropriate group. if you are in 5th grade but are age appropriate for 6th grade, you play 6th grade. This becomes an issue for some kids because their team ages out because they start playing middle school ball and the holdback is left without a year of football because there is no team.

Either way, the boy will play age appropriate not grade level. There are also photo lineups before each game with league provided picture id cards so the opposing coach knows whether or not the stud went through the leagues check points.

Good system.. Totally fair and I bet no complaints except man that boy is big for his age. But parents will accept that . Everyone knows that holdbacks are a way to get an advantage at youth level

My son's coach believes we are playing in a MadLax tournament this summer that will also be attended by Edge Lacrosse. Hopefully I'll get to see first hand the size difference. Does anyone know if they are still registering teams one year younger than actual in tournaments?

Even more unfortunate is it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy when you keep seeing kids who are reclassified getting the spots. If you were not a strong 2016, go 2017. If not a strong 2017, go 2018...and so on. Do college lcarosse coaches really believe the Lorenzo's Oil is to get a kid a year older in their early 20s ?!? Frankly, give me the kid with the stones who plays up or takes a varsity spot as a 14 year old trying out against 16 year old classmates. I think back to when I did sports as a kid and nothing was more admired in my generation over playing up. Playing down in that era would have been laughed at. I don't know where this sport went so wrong, but this epidemic is a pretty pathetic one. I have a work colleague who has a son being recruited by mid-level D1 recruit. The way it works in basketball is pretty simple. Jungle rules, you get to go to AAU tournaments and play. Then you can get invited direct to camps from there, then you play against the best of the best. You can play or you get made and everyone can see it. Lacrosse seems to avoid at all costs getting the best of the best together in my opinion. My son's club has a lot of mid level D1 commits who can hide away as contributors on a great club team. The preppy system seems to like it this way, and the club owners love the PR attached to commit lists. Seems to be all they care about.

You dads are certifiable.

Who is responsible for enforcing the age restrictions for travel clubs? I would assume since the clubs themselves cant be trusted is it up to each individual tournament director or is there some greater central authority? What are the consequences for a team knowingly playing with multiple older kids?

the only consequences are winning against younger boya and being talked about on botc

There are zero consequences. There are teams that I know of that are currently practicing and playing with multiple older kids on the roster (if there was one).

What is preferred? A graduation year or a U class?

You LI dads are insane.

Preference = Not cheating. Pick one method and make it consistent. I would say cheaters never win but we all know that is untrue. Anyone test the PSI of the lacrosse balls from the last tournament?