BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Long Island Yellow Jackets Lacrosse

Thug ball

Which year are you talking about

That fall tournament that elevate think they won was that they really lost by 2 to a mix team.

To be clear.
This "thug ball" stuff started several years back during National Draw when 2015 YJ blue played 2015 TG black and a broken bone was sustained by a TG player. One goal game with a couple minutes left. Some deemed the check "cheap". Then the same 2015 YJ blue team played a MD team and a MD player sustained a broken leg. Some deemed the check "cheap". Same tournament...second incident.
That is when a poster started calling the YJ style of play "thug ball".

This moderator believes the YJ kids are aggressive but not "thugs". They play within the rules as other clubs do. They are carded as other players are when they violate the rules. "Thug ball" is old, untrue and frankly not representative of how the kids play.
Let it go......

what "the Hop" forgot to mention is the broken leg sustained by the Skywalkers player at L.F.A.C. or the constant swinging over girls heads, cross checks on "D" and "overly aggressive" pushing for ground balls. It's pretty obvious that The Hop has a daughter that either has, or still does play for Y.J. so I guess we can see where this board will go. No Mr. Hop I and other posters will not "let it go" as you so flippantly say while these things happen to our daughters

Yes the "Thug Ball" at YJ is alive and well. This past summer my D was playing YJ second 2019 team. Our team got ahead, with one particular player on our team scoring quite a bit. She happens to be of the small, quick variety. So what happens? Cross check that knocks her to the ground. No card just whistle. Obvious deliberate trip (More like a leg whip) as she goes by yet another hapless gold teamer. Again whistle, no card. Finally, a stick to the head and a yellow card. So what YJ has learned, or more likely has been taught, is that thug ball pays off. Keep doing it until it gets called. And even then, keep doing it. That girl walked off the field at the end of the game having still won, yes Gold is not as good as they think, but with severe bruises on the arms and shoulders, a sprained knee, which kept her out for the next month, and what I suspect was a concussion from whiplashing the ground because her mother said that the next week she seemed to have headaches more than usually.

That is not aggressive play, that is dirty play. Someone needs to understand the difference, particularly at the youth ages where the refereeing is spotty at best. I know the retorts from YJ nation ... "If she can't take it how will she ever play collegiately ..." or "have her play badminton..." ... Heard it all already. All those statements prove is that you are Thugs. So here is a request-- YJ parents, your girls are talented lacrosse players. They don't need to resort to cheating to win games. So demand that your program teach them the rules and some sportsmanship. Rather than get defensive, help correct the situation.

You sound like idiots! You remain anonymous because you would be embarrassed for anyone to know you are one of the idiots writing this stuff. GET A LIFE OUTSIDE YOUR DAUGHTERS short lacrosse years! None of the garbage you write is REALLY about the kids.. it is about YOUR overinflated egos and anger toward each other. Leave the girls out of this filth and act like real fathers.. not animals!

And don't forget the U15 game of the 2015 cohort. YJ ended up with such a rep that extra officials were called to final, where YJ lost THREE girls to red cards and lost. I call that hoisted by their own petards. 2015 YJ is/was a great team and had all the talent needed but chose to take the low road instead.

To say that the girls are not coached to test the officials to see if they will blow the whistle and give cards would be untrue. This is similer at youth ages in other sports where nutty parents tell their kids "if the ref isn't going to call it push or hit them back" which is always the wrong message. Just watch a PAL game, travel girls are always encroaching before the whistle and always checking aggressively up high until they are sent off which unfortunately isn't nearly enough. The aggressive play or thug ball as you put it will eventually lead to the entire country wearing helmets which is unfortunate.

I have been a proponent of a basketball type foul system. XXX amount of fouls and then you watch from the bench. Watch how quick the game would clean up because no one wants to foul out

says the anonymous, thug supporter. sign your name if your so proud of the way they play so when every one sees you we all know exactly how you feel

Thank you for speaking up, I have noticed for the past couple days the new superior attitude of this new moderator "the hop" who seems like he has his own agenda policing these forums spewing his beliefs...moderating is not the same as controlling and telling people when to chill on a topic if it goes against your beliefs but is not breaking any rules on this forum. intervene when necessary "Mr Hop" but for the most part keep your own agendas to yourself.

I would LOVE to see a system of accumulating fouls! I also believe it would clean up the game. Unfortunately, I've never heard a whisper about this coming into practice.

Thanks for your opinion. Like you I have an opinion on this issue and you can bet I will voice it. The whining and language used to debate this has at times been questionable. My post was not a personal attack nor off base as yours was. Further, your assumption that I am a YJ parent or any assumption you have made is as expected false. My personal agenda as you stated it to clear up the nonsense that posters like you throw out there. Your ridiculous assumptions and childish name calling not withstanding I am sure there are some useful and constructive thoughts you can contribute.

You notice that but do not notice when The Hop actually states something positive about Bill Smith which a YJ homer would never do, The hop did forget to add to BS list of accomplishments his pie eating championship. The thug ball thing is just so ridiculous and the fact that you morons think that is something that is taught over at YJ is sad.Feel free to go have a conversation with kids that have transferred in from YJ. Most of these kids have friends that play on many different travel teams and to suggest that they are thugs on this forum is just cowardly.

Why is any opinion, especially when backed up with facts, seen as whining or off base. You get named a moderator but no one on here has any idea what your qualifications are to be able to edit any post or end any discussion that you do not agree with. You claim to want to end the childish name calling , but on any thread people are calling each other a&$ holes , D***h bag, idiot, moron etc... unimpeded by you. I have never said "thug ball" was taught at Y.J., but it sure isn't discouraged, or corrected. there is plenty of rough play from all clubs, but none as prevalent as the jackets. Maybe you should get off your newly acquired high horse and listen to what people are saying to you, instead of pushing your weight around. You don't need to interject yourself into every discussion, and learn to moderate with limited personal opinion

What is being suggested is that the ADULTS teach the children differently than they have been. It is obvious to anyone involved in girls lax that the "Long Island" brand of girls lacrosse is more aggressive, and sometimes becomes dirty and dangerous. No one is blaming the kids. It's how they are taught to play. The results, however, are obvious. And YJ is the most prominent.

So it is time for people like you to start teaching the girls the proper way to play this beautiful game. Go ahead deflect again from the issue of your culpability by suggesting we are somehow attacking children. We are not. We are calling you and your coaches out to do a better job, more honorable job.

By far and away the most physical and aggressive games I have ever seen include YJ, TG, and yes even the Maryland teams, Skywalkers and M&D. All the best teams play very fast, aggressive and extremely physical games. If your team is not, then they are losing to these teams that are. Let the refs control the game, it seems crying anonymously to others ready to tear you a new one on these threads is not gonna get you anywhere. And to the other crybaby on here, what can't the moderator have an opinion and contribute to conversations? Who the [lacrosse] are you to post such nonsense?

i have a question about early verbal commits - both my daughters play lacrosse and are not in high school yet - all i keep hearing is about a girl in our town who committed to a very large d1 school in the 10 grade. i hear she is getting a full ride from the school she committed to. i find this hard to believe that a school will guarantee a kid in the 10th grade a full scholarship since i am told that d1 schools only have 12 scholarships per team. the school she is going to has 45 girls on the team and i am told they recruit almost a full team each year. so how dose this really work - not everyone gets a full free ride. how does the college determine how much scholarship money she will get and when are they told? thanks for everyone's help.

there it is again. It's being a "crybaby" now. Your attitude is exactly the problem. I am not speaking about college lacrosse, or even high level high school lacrosse. I am speaking about 6,7,8th grade girls. And I am 100pct sure you are the same person on the sidelines screaming at the refs that they don't know what they are doing. And that, sadly, is true. There is a lack of qualified referees and they are spread way too thin at the large tournaments. So to say, let the refs handle it, does not work.

We have coaches in our program who have played at the highest levels of women's lacrosse. And I don't just mean D1, I mean D1 all-americans and D1 national championship captains and Women's National Team members. So I think they have played a very aggressive style of lacrosse. But they teach the girls from a young age the right way to play. And they bench them if they see play that is dangerous. They hold the girls to a very high standard of sportsmanship. And over time, as their skills get to where they can both play aggressively, and within the rules, they let them. They know where to draw the lines. You don't.

You confuse fast, aggressive and physical with cheap, dirty and dangerous. You guys have lost where the line is. No crying here. Just pointing out the truth. And no, M&D and Skywalkers do not play the same brand of lax that YJ and TG do. Sorry you are in a class all by yourselves.

By far and away the most physical and aggressive games I have ever seen include YJ, TG, and yes even the Maryland teams, Skywalkers and M&D. All the best teams play very fast, aggressive and extremely physical games. If your team is not, then they are losing to these teams that are. Let the refs control the game, it seems crying anonymously to others ready to tear you a new one on these threads is not gonna get you anywhere. And to the other crybaby on here, what can't the moderator have an opinion and contribute to conversations? Who the [lacrosse] are you to post such nonsense?

My daughter is now done playing club lax. She has played all the top teams, and according to her no other team was "aggressive" as Y.J. certainly not M&D, S.W. or Capitol. who she does say is her top 5 "aggressive" teams are, in order
1. Yellow Jackets
2. T.O.G.Z.
3 S.J.S. pink
4. Mass Elite
5. Pittsburgh Premere
I must say that teams 2,4,& 5 were usually blowouts on our side and the opposing teams were frustrated. maybe all these top tier teams play Y.J. so "aggressive" because thats the reputation the Y.J. bring to the table. Just because your teams have to play against top tier teams in an "aggressive" fashion doesn't mean all clubs do. One of the best games I ever watched was My daughters team play M&D black to a tie, with nary a whistle, let alone fouls or yellow cards. When she came off the field she said those girls were very sweet.

No one can really say that the girls parents you mention aren't being truthful, but having gone through the process myself and knowing one of the top 3 recruits for 2015, I can tell you that the parents are Stretching the the truth. Many people will neglect to say that a certain portion of the money is for academics or grants or financial aid. If I was to add in all of that my daughter would be getting about 85%, but for lacrosse alone she only gets 50%

"What is being suggested is that the ADULTS teach the children differently than they have been. It is obvious to anyone involved in girls lax that the "Long Island" brand of girls lacrosse is more aggressive, and sometimes becomes dirty and dangerous. No one is blaming the kids. It's how they are taught to play. The results, however, are obvious. And YJ is the most prominent.

So it is time for people like you to start teaching the girls the proper way to play this beautiful game. Go ahead deflect again from the issue of your culpability by suggesting we are somehow attacking children. We are not. We are calling you and your coaches out to do a better job, more honorable job."


No deflecting , you really are a toolbag. First it is not a fact that YJ plays an overly aggressive style, have watched many games in which the other teams such as skywalkers(not a knock on Skywalkers) got multiple yellow cards when YJ have gotten none. Lets say you are correct and YJ plays a more aggressive style , who the f are you to say that is not the way the game should be played. Seems the college coaches love the way they are taught to play the game and that is fine with us. Beautiful game, lol , get over yourself , maybe Long Islanders find it beautiful to watch girls play aggressive passionate lacrosse or maybe they find it beautiful to watch parents like you whine like little girls.

Only top level players are offered 50%..Most something less...anything above that one must be a special player...

College coaches have pretty good idea who will be on their team in 2-3 years from now. At least as far as the Blue Chip recruits go. The coaches will commit scholarship money to the best of the best in 10th grade. Many good players who commit junior and early senior year still get financial packages that include athletic and academic money. So if your daughter isn't committed early don't stress too much there are still spots on teams for them to play. A coaches verbal commitment to an athlete is that verbal just as the athletes commitment is verbal. This means things can change. But top college coaches don't want a reputation of offering scholarship money and then not coming through with their commitment. That would hurt their ability to attract future recruits if word got out that the coach wasn't true to their word.

No, we don't all confuse fast, aggressive play with dirty play. Dirty play is dirty, checks to the wrist, kicks (yes, seen it and from YJ) when the refs aren't looking. Don't try to say that is aggressive play, that is just dirty.

Maybe your daughters All-American coaches don't coach that way and lucky for you and kudos to them. But some coaches must because it permeates the team. You can recognize those players in school games because they're still playing that way.

The myth of the full ride. People on here swear they exist, and maybe some do but I will guarantee you there are far fewer actual full rides than parents, club/school coaches, and clubs claim. There's no way of knowing other than someone's word, you see what I mean.

Also remember that peoples' definition of full ride may differ. To some, it means tuition, to other it means tuition, room, board and books, and all iterations in between.

There was here on BOTC a thread on another forum about this, not sure if it still exists, but if you go to the sister site Back of the Net you can surely find many discussions about college recruiting including funding and NCAA guidelines.

My daughter is a High School Jr who plays on LI and in my opinion the girls are taught to play a very frenetic style of lacrosse. They are taught to double and triple in the midfield zone whenever possible and make their opponents as uncomfortable as possible with stick checks and hard riding. I believe this to be a style of play that is employed by all of the top clubs in NY and NJ. I believe That the top teams in the Md and VA play a more physical stay at home type of defense. But based on the amount of bumps and bruises my daughter has sustained against teams like M&D, Skywalkers,Capitol, etc.. neither style is more thuggish than the other

Some of the nastiest individual players I have seen are from these Maryland teams. I have seen a very large amount of games from any and all the clubs mentioned here, and every team is different. What I see is a few girls playing harder than some people appreciate, sprinkled throughout all the teams. Whoever is slinging beautiful game, poetry in motion, our team, club, state, region is above this....is blind to themselves.

Want to see physical, nasty games, look for clubs that pull from the same schools/geographic area. Familiarity breeds contempt. These kids have been going head to head spring, summer, winter and fall since they were in elementary school. My girls play/played for M&D, games against Hero's and Skywalkers are more likely to get physical and chippy than any game against teams from the island. I've found M&D/YJ games to be pretty clean and among the most fun games to watch.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree I have witnessed a YJ player being reprimanded many times for play that would be considered too physical. I have two daughters who play, one for YJ and the other for Express and both clubs corrected overly physical play the same way. When finishing a line change each clubs coach would instruct the player on the problem with their over zealous play.

I'm calling B.S. on this one! No Y.J. parent would ever all a sibling to play for Girls express. it is, quite simply beneath them

Pleas read the following definitions and figure out what/who you are and what/who you want your daughters to be:

Club- an association of two or more people united by a common interest or goal.

Gang- a group of recurrently associating individuals or close friends or family with identifiable leadership and internal organization, identifying with or claiming control over territory in a community, and engaging collectively in violent or other forms of illicit behavior.

I say the oldest sibling played for express while YJ was just getting started and you get sibling now at YJ. I know at least one family that had that situation and the older sibling plays for top DI program. So bitter are the haters on this site, sad to see...

Division I championship game last year... Syracuse had 43 fouls and six yellow cards while Maryland had 24 fouls. Girls lacrosse is a physical game, get used to it. Three of the four top foul contributors for MD were from MD and other from LI. Cuse top four had two from MD, one from PA and one from LI. For Cuse's six cards, one was for the bench, two from MD, one from PA and two from upstate NY. Top players from all over the best lacrosse regions have a physical aspect to their game that results in fouls and cards. So bitter about YJ, you are blinded to actual reality.

Thank you for making our point for us. Not one person within this discussion said that girls lax wasn't a physical game, or that we are upset over the bumps and bruises of the game, for heaven sake I know they happen my daughter is a goalie. Our argument was and still is the "thug" mentality that runs rampantly unchecked in the Y.J. By stating there were so many fouls, though trying to have a "GOT YA" moment, only substantiates our argument. at the college level the refs are calling more fouls on more experienced players to keep control of the game, but I am sure most parents will agree in the youth and high school ranks the refs are not as good, and some teams take advantage of that. I am sure that when MD. teams play each other or N.Y. teams play each other there is a little more bumping and checking, that is to be expected. What we are talking about is the hard checks under the guise of "going hard for a ground ball", or the swings about the head, or the stick butts to the body as they run down the field, or the stick checks to the wrist. If your kid is checking a stick so hard that it can break a bone then she doesn't know how to check correctly and thats either your, or your coaches fault.

Still not right, a foul means a rule was broken and the current soft rules DETER NO ONE! Should be xxx fouls in a game and you foul out. Get ready for helmets!!!

My daughter (YJ) has had plenty of teams around Long Island come at her with 2 handed tomahawks to the head…all the while coaches and parents are screaming "take her out". The problem comes down to the refs rarely take dangerous players off the field. I have seem multiple hits to the head by the same player and no calls made - even when someone is on the ground. What happened to automatic red card? Seems the refs are closing their eyes to dangerous play. Aggressive play is part of the game - blatant brutality is not. I can name at least 5 other teams on Long Island that have "thug" girls. Seems to be a officiating issue as well. Stupid calls made for nothing while on the other end of the field, someone thinks this is hockey.

Coaches and parents screaming "take her out." And this has happened with plenty of teams? Sorry but I'm calling BS on you mom. "I've told you a million times to stop exaggerating!"