BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Age Verification

How will these programs verify age? I could alter a copy of a birth certificate in 10 seconds, and anyone with photoshop could do the same. If these people are nutso enough to keep kids back a year or two or play in the wrong age group do you think they have the scruples not to do that?

I have a question? Does anyone on the U.S. lacrosse bod have a hold back son or daughter. That would answer a lot of questions. [/quote]

USL is based in Baltimore. Obviously there is a strong MIAA Lax (holdbacks/reclassify) presence around them with either their own children or friends and their children. [/quote]

USL is more of a Baltimore country club that has some nice events from time to time than a governing body in the sport. Lacrosse would have to look elsewhere for leadership.

Best post yet.

The middie "committed" from Edge when is he committed for? Has he a verbal because he is in 9th grade? and is no longer in 8th grade yet he plays in a 2019 bracket. [/quote]

Apparently it is their 6'3 200+ D guy. He's not committed but has offers from attending camps. He is a reclassified 2019. His brother did the same thing and is going to JHU next year. [/quote]

Take a look at this picture via the link below, they have a bunch of huge kids on the team, which is 6'3"?

http://instagram.com/p/vgj0CbktxN/ [/quote]

How can a club purposely recruit older kids for grad year teams and then register teams in the wrong age division of tournaments? Tournament management, if they are aware, should be ashamed. With all of the talented teams I see playing all summer and fall this practice should be banned. [/quote]

I coach an "elite" travel team based in Westchester County NY and felt the need to weigh in. The topic of holdbacks has been hotly debated in our program and we've concluded parents holding their kids back is obviously out of our control. We do not encourage this behavior but we will not prevent a child from trying out for their grade appropriate team. However, we will not permit our teams to play against programs playing down against younger competition. That is something we can control. We have contacted all of the tournament directors in which we are registered and put them on notice. We have been assured by each that "age verification" will be thoroughly enforced. We can not allow cheating at the program and tournament levels to go unchecked. It starts with each program reviewing policies and procedures and taking a stand. [/quote]

I guess you wont be doing any Maryland Tournaments against elite teams..All are grade based with holdbacksnow. [/quote]

You didn't read my post clearly. We will not play TEAMS that have been registered down a division. We can not stop parents from actually holding their son back, we can however refuse to play teams who have been purposely mis-registered to play against younger teams. Edge Lacrosse is one obvious example, they boldly post the practice all over their website. We wont stad for it.

I am glad to see at least some officials are pushing back against teams like Edge.

This will make the game safer and more enjoyable for age appropriate players.

Forfeiting because you think a team may have some kids who repeated a grade? LOL.

Get a new pair of panties.

Typical response. When the $hi3s the fan, cast dispersions against the victims who are taking a stand.

What's the matter little Johnny afraid to play against kids his own age? Lil Johnny only want to play against the little kids....

Talk about wearing panties. Tell your son to grow a pair and play on age for once.

I checked out the Edge Lacrosse twitter page because I was curious after reading the many posts regarding their program's practices. They post videos of their teams and it looks like they are playing kids much younger, the size difference is shocking. I guess it works...14 year olds playing 12 year olds. Lame.

Negative.

The argument against age based teams keeps going backwards. To be clear, the exact words from the NPYLL board was that going to grade based teams instead of U-9, U-11, U-13 and U-15 will enable clubs to field more teams.

That is false. Before last year there were numerous clubs that went with AA teams, then A teams and may have also had B teams. The grade based system wasn't some magical exilir that makes it possible to do more teams, since more teams existed anyways. It was sold as a better system to go up by single years. I have never heard an argument for WHY single grade based teams are needed over single year age teams aside from that it makes it easier for college coaches to evaluate players which I have a hard time believing since kids have their D.O.B., school and school year listed in the club tournament programs. And any argument that teams between ages 8-13 need to be grade based for the college recruiting point is pointless and silly. Basically US Lacrosse foreshadowed policy by publishing their best practices, and within ONE WEEK the NPYLL overlords decided to go to grade based teams, and voted it in. It's a hard sell to represent that as a coincidence and something NPYLL was contemplating for some time to solve the "need for more teams" crisis which never existed.

I emailed our club owner. I emailed all of the NPYLL board members, and not one of them ever formally responded to me beyond to state for those who don't like it, maybe club lacrosse is not a good fit for those kids.

There are no valid arguments that what is common in soccer, ice hockey and other larger and more evolved sports than lacrosse do -- which is single age year team flights -- is impossible to apply to lacrosse because college coaches can't read tournament programs and will go on recruiting a kid having no bloody clue what year in school he is. That is stupid. There isn't a valid argument that the "holdbacks" who are indeed college recruits can't hang on with kids their own calendar age. If they can't they would not be recruited. There isn't a valid argument that same kids can't "play down" or reclassify for prep school play, because there isn't a rule against it in the prep leagues. There are valid safety issues with grade based teams given the prolific appetites of parents and also entire club programs (Edge is one example) to play down beginning in the youth levels where the size and maturity deltas between kids is too much to stuff everyone into, which is exactly the problem. It used to be top kids played up, and that is a discretionary choice. Now top kids play down, and that takes away discretion from parents. You can't just run to a single A or B team at these clubs like with the U-11AA, A then B world we used to get along in.

Now again: why the fight to keep club ball grade based over age based? The latter is not disputable in that it is safer, and more forthright equitable to the participants. I would have some respect for Ryan McClernan and the other NPYLL board members who mandated this process to stop hiding behind unanswered emails and other queries and make their standing statement on this issue. It is not going away.

Im not sure if this is the right forum but I'll ask anyways. My son is 13 going on 14 and is being pulled up to varsity this spring. He also plays on his 2019 club team. Is there a rule regarding this meaning is he still eligible to play on his 2019 club team or is there a standard rule regarding that sort of thing? Does it matter whether he actually sees playing time or not or is it just the fact hes on the roster?

Taken from the Edge Lacrosse website, we will not play programs who cheat.

Fall 2014 - Edge 2019 Team (2000 Born/ U15)

We will be hosting INVITE only tryouts for the fall 2019 team. Looking for grade 9 or exceptional 8th graders to compete with us this fall. We expect this team to be very strong and compete against the top grade 8/U15 teams in North America.

Why no tough guy comments telling Edge or other parents and administrators to grow a pair? Tough isn't playing down. Kudos to kids playing up like the 8th grader being pulled up to varsity for school. If you can do it and parents ok with the safety issue, play up.

Looking for 9th graders to play against 8th graders, are you freaking kidding me? Edge Lacrosse should be prevented from playing in US tournaments. Keep your Moosehead beer and McKenzie Bros and play at the proper age level.

great question.

in years past when 2017 were rising freshman I saw some tournaments detail (w/o HS experience). Tristate may have been one of them but it was a few years a go. I have not seen that recently. Unfortunately like proving a child was held back it is hard to prove where an out of state player played.

At the end of the day, you just hope that all players are playing up to their abilities and challenging their skills and playing the game with honor.

My son played JV as a 7th grader and will play varsity as an 8th grader. He is also 13 turning 14 next week. He plays 2019. There is no issue with club or tournament if your 2019 plays on a high school team. Hope that helps.

Canada is a country where only about one in seven adults has a college degree. Going to an American college is a very big deal, so let us not be shocked that they game it to the extent possible to get their kids to US colleges. Canada also has flexibility on starting your kid in the K-12 system from age 4 to 7 as starting age. Some families keep kids at home a lot longer before the start school, so graduating high school at 20 or 21 is not unusual. None of this is a hall pass for the unfairness in it. The basic point is lacrosse just needs to go to age based club play. People have their reasons for wanting kids restrained to finish school older, and there are no school rules against that. Since lacrosse is a contact sport, at the youth levels it needs to be age based to be fair and safe. There isn't anything US lacrosse can do about high school or college play and leave be alone there.

I checked out the Edge twitter feed. A 6'4 220 pound 2019? Nice and when I say nice I mean GOOD for the kid. Kid will be attracting offers and LI cry baby dads will be arguing over who has nicer rubber on the Trans AM. Only difference between Edge and the top US clubs is Edge had the sack to not hide what everyone is doing. Good for them.

LI dads have crappy tats in person and are the toughest men on the Internet.

Trans Am? What are we in 1980?

Many LI dads are. I see plenty of Trans Ams under carports whenever I'm in LI.

Come on. Trans Am's are so out they are in. Smokey and Bandit one just sold for $450K.

http://starcarcentral.com/images/bandit_lg.jpg

Lmao

When I think of dads from Long Island, I think of:

- community college
- terrible tats
- TransAm Firebird IROC

Hilarious, dad of a kid who can't hack it with boys his own age and needs to go play with the widdle boys calling the little kids wimps. Classic!!! No self awareness.

It must hurt when you think !!

Why do you have to get personal and stereotype all of Long Island? Every region of the country has stereotypes and every region of the country also has top-notch lacrosse organizations, players and families. This is a site for information and perhaps light, comedic banter. It has turned into nothing more than who can trash whom more. If you cannot contribute anything positive to a thread or supply valid information, please keep your thoughts to yourself.

Don't mess with Joey Buttafuoco.

Love the Trans Am.. Got lots of girls in that car. How many girls you guys down south get with that Datsun B-210 you drive. I like the yellow one. Do you still park on the front lawn.

How dare you blanket LI Dads as being Trans AM driving punks. I highly resent that stereo type. I am a rich sophisticated living north shore of the LIE and I am a corvette/camaro guy all the way! we look down our noses at the trans am guys--always did. Mustang guys are harder to blanket stereotype though.

This is a good example of the difference between PARENTS holding their own kids back and a PROGRAM playing an entire team down a grade. I'm not an advocate of holding back kids for athletic advantage and my son is a 5' 11" 14 year old, but I have to take exception with a program playing their teams down so they can compete.... Come on, someone needs to step up to the plate and not permit programs like Edge to do this. Individual kids..can't do anything about until age brackets.

Lets keep the personal attacks and immature lines of thought out of this discussion. Stay on topic.

Tomorrow is a lax convention in Maryland. US lacrosse has brought in 20 people to discuss matters involving youth lacrosse. One of the topics on top of the list is going to the U8,U9,U10.....instead of grade. Voice your opinion to US lacrosse.Let them know how you feel.Get your organization to step up and push for this.Gotta make some noise and not on BOTC!!!

My kids are younger, but I think that once kids are in high school, "the gloves are off", so to speak. That said, 8th grade and under should be held to birth year standards.

We can debate on what month cut-off that should be, but to argue against age/birth-year based leagues & tournaments is simply ridiculous.

Taking Canadian lacrosse as an example, they have tyke, novice, pee wee, bantam, [lacrosse], jr, sr deliniations for their own house & provincial leagues. These categories are generally 2 birth years combined with cut-off dates (July 1 for example).

So, for Canadians that are used to playing in 2-birth-year groups, it's almost to be expected that the Edge would push the envelope. It's what they know.

That said, it's up to club directors and tourney directors to clean up this mess.

Or should we wait till a kid is paralyzed, or some other serious injury occur before we do something?

The choice is obvious!

Great post.

Had to renew USLacrosse membership for my kids -- over $100! What am I getting for this? Advocacy? That's a joke, as the youth game is a mess. 16 yo. Canucks against my 13 yo, really? Most youth refs have never played and don't even know the rules of the game. Insurance? Maybe, but's only supplemental coverage. And most of my rights are waived. Of course this is provided we are not playing the Candian Edge team. International teams are specifically excluded from insurance coverage.

Try reading the waiver they make you sign. You will puke!

Membership is required by my league. What value is there to USLacrosse as an organization?

My youth league requires us to join uslacrosse also x 4 for me - it is nothing more than a complete money grab by uslacrosse. What you get is a yearly subscription to their magazine and a number to give to the youth league so they can say that "you complied"......

I couldn't agree more. U.S. Lacrosse needs to hear from us on these issues, because unfortunately, they appear quite content maintaining the status quo. Take the time to contact them and express your concerns.
http://www.uslacrosse.org/about-us-lacrosse/contact-us.aspx

There are a face off rule petition by the FOGOs not long ago to protest the new rule. It did not work, but that is not to say it wasn't a good forum to show support. How do people feel about an on-line petition for the lacrosse world to sign. The FOGO one if my memory serves did get 5,000-10,000 signors. That is not a chump number, but is also too small a number to speak for a lacrosse majority. Do you people believe this can have wheels for 100K+ signatures? I think it is better to do this with a wider net than to go to the USL convention. In truth, the USL convention is a social call and a good chance to go to the equipment and apparel booths for some discount gear and swag.

I think it's a very good idea and arguably the most effective way to get USL's attention. It's also an excellent way to quantify just how many people are concerned about the hold back/playing down pandemic. What is the best way to create the online petition?