BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Age Verification

Lax, the only sport where a 5'7" suburban dad can actually dream his son may make it big. Lol- a partial scholarship and bragging rights.

Except it's not cheating. God, you uneducated LI dads are a riot.

Your kid sucks on age so you and the loser mom leave him back,to become a social misfit freak, his claim to fame will be buying booze in 10th grade, with a beard. LOSERS

Awww... do not feel badly, your son needed to repeat? I heard they may start to allow you to drop two years- that might work for him if one year does not. You might have to do it anyway- I heard full teams are dropping a year- that will take away your son's edge- gee that would stink for your kid.

Why would anyone look down upon anyone trying to ensure fair play is adhered to. The lacrosse community can not restrict parents from actually holding their kids back. Its an insane practice for athletic advantages. But, the athletic community can force clubs like Edge to play their teams in the age appropriate divisions in tournaments.

Why would anyone deride parents stressing fair play? Playing teams down an age group is shameful.

Holding back a kid for whatever reason is wrong. What does that teach the kid? that it is ok to cheat in life, real class act some of these parents are. My son Has been playing up a grade since he has been in 7th grade not down, if you want them to get better you play up not down. What is he gonna learn by beating players that aren't as good as an older kid. Tisk Tisk. Shame on you

No, my son didn't reclassify, you moron.

Seriously, your paranoia/insecurities are off the charts.

I guess he'll learn all that and more when he takes an ivy spot. The end will justify the means.

It's the definition of cheating

cheat - act unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination

That is from the dictionary. Can not really debate this?

Insecurities? I didn't use any name calling sir. It's just the facts- you only reclass if you are not good enough to play with your own peers. There is no other reason to do so. Can you name one?

I would beg, borrow and steal and cheat to better my child's future

And that says it all about what type of person you are. Teach kids to cheat instead of working hard to get ahead.

Reclassifying is not breaking a single rule. Some families do it because their son isn't doing well academically. Some do it for maturity/emotional reasons. Some do it purely for an athletic benefit.

Get over it. If you had your way, there would be a freshman, sophomore, junior and senior lacrosse team. Nobody cares about this except Bizaaro Strong Island Internet tough guys.

So you would knock over a liquor store at gunpoint if it meant your kid could play lax at a D1 school? You don't mean that....so stop talking like a dope.

Mom here on LI. I am not over it and never will be.

It is true what has been written about in history. You raise your children differently in the south.

Up here, on LI, we raise our children to work hard in school, practice, train and respect their coaches and teammates.

We do not need to cheat to give our children an advantage.

Continue to have luncheons, tea parties, socials, BBQ's with your buddies and your wives and keep telling yourselves what you are doing to your sons is OK with the rest of the country.

That way you can sleep at night.

Guaranteed when your sons move up here to the big city, after sj fisishes JR. College, he will be embarrassed to tell his associates he was 16 years old the day he stepped on his HS lacrosse field as a freshman.

Reclassifying is only a very temporary advantage, then the real world comes crashing down and then what do you do as a parent? Kids need to learn how to over come adversity, deal with difficult situations and work on their own to succeed. Mom and Dad manipulating reality, if only temporarily, is a sad lesson to teach a child as they mature. Forget all of the excuses, reclassifying is pathetic and even worse are the programs that don't even reclassify. They just promise the entire team will PG and play down against younger competition (see Edge Lacrosse et al). That's even worse.

That's what you don't get dummy. It's not about the lacrosse. It's about using lacrosse to get access to otherwise unattainable academic opportunities which change a life trajectory and potentially genet ions. If repeating 8th grade gives my kid a better shot at an ivy or duke then yep I will do it.

Before I address the banality of this overused, broad sweeping catch all excuse of yours; I should qualify that I am the father of an age/class appropriate D1commited player. He has a 96.6 average in the 10th grade and is in all honors classes. Yes; he is rather disciplined and successful and he is from Stong Island. He works his [lacrosse] off on and off of the field.

Now then; on to the dissection of your extremely compelling suggestion that reclassifying is not breaking any rules and to then...get over it.

Let us first analyze the claim that some do it if their child is not doing well academically. What type of parent would even choose to do so and then continue to allow the child to play a sport that is clearly taking valuable study time away from said challenged student? Is it better to say "we held him back and he still plays lax" or would it be better to just eliminate all extracurricular activities that may be a distraction and keep the child in their proper class and do a better job in parenting and supervising this child academically?

Decisions to do the former are purely ego driven choices of the parents and is an example of poor parenting at best.

To reclassify for emotional and or maturity reasons is replete with myriad reasons to not even be playing lax, and focusing more the child's inherent developmental needs. Clearly group activities and sports, as well as other group activities, may have a role in this type of child's growth, but is beyond this forum to expand upon fully; and the absurd idea that a parent might still yet have the ego driven decision to hold ones kid back and pressure him with the physical and emotional demands of competitive sports such as lax is purely irresponsible on multiple levels.

the hold back for purely athletic reasons is, by definitions stated in this thread earlier, as being consistent with the "cheating" word that so frightens your type that you would rather glady hide behind the labeling of the child as emotionally unprepared or having academic deficiencies before admitting to the fact that your child needs to cheat in order to compete. That label so frightens you all.

I'll repeat: cheat in order to compete.

This has become the path for so many of your ilk that it is approaching viral expansion proportions and you have all become numb and comfortable with the notion that it's ok to do if others are as well. Great character flaws on display for all to see, and we all do see it.

Here on Strong Island, at least, it has yet to become so prevalent that we would all look the other way.

Our kids have been and will always be successful against the cheaters for years and years. Their skill sets have yet to be surpassed by those of the cheating nations down south which always makes it fun for us to watch our players run circles around the loafing oversized hold back cheaters.

Their successes gained while playing true to age and respecting the principles that hard work and practice pays off carries over into their post school professions and it is these qualities that we strive to instill in our kids which ensure that these values are upheld for future generations to come.

Stong Island ethics trumps DMV area cheating every time.

Thus, as you have so eloquently stated; "get over it" Our boys don't need to cheat to compete.

Here is what you don't get: if your kid isn't up to par academically to achieve IVY standards and the required academic index; then your hold back intentions are wrought with disillusionment. Just because an IVY shows interest does not mean that your middle of the class kid will get in; so keep an eye on that community college as that is where he will end up if you plan on winning a lottery ticket without the grades to support it.

Better off spending your lax money on tutors for junior if you feel IVY is unattainable without lax.

Hope your son is as good if not better than the guys who ended up playing on the US team or are playing on a MLL team for him to take an IVY spot. But it is ok to dream i guess and give false hope

VERY WELL SAID, my fellow Strong Islander.

I am asking permission to cut and paste this post as a response to the hold back, cheating parents who will defend their position.

If you get too wordy you lose them. Their motto- if you can't make the cut, play with the younger kids. That's the bottom line- no other reason to do so. Call it what you want- not cheating, giving an advantage etc- bottom line though- if you can't cut it- drop a year and see if you fair better. GL to the kids whose parents felt they couldn't make the cut. God forbid they still haven't by Junior yr- talk about pressure.

In Maryland the holdback/reclassify is out of control. In the last two years all club youth lacroose went grade base to accomdate this disgusting aspect of holding kids back in sports.
The private schools are the engine as few public schools hold back kids unless its absolutely needed. MIAA schools are rift with these holdbacks. I personally know of one MIAA school grade that has over half the boys in it heldback!And it is common at many others. Many of the elite MIAA HS teams have many holdbacks/reclassify on them. Basically college freshman going against HS players. It will only get worst in MD, not better as more parents see the effect of holding your child back for an advantage. #1 MD club Crabs are the king of holdbacks and everyone wants to play for them , especially MIAA kids.

You sound like a total dbag

The truth hurts doesn't it?

Don't worry. Keep telling yourself that leaving your academically sound son back in the 8th grade, making him repeat a year of school that he successfully mastered, is OK.

You will be able to sleep better at night that way. No need to worry about his future as a real man.

He will just bully his way around, cheat his boss, stab his co-workers in the back, and when he is brought to HR, he can call you and your wife to speak to the VP in charge and let her know you allowed this to happen when your son was 13yrs old, so why is it not OK now.

Then you can tell the President of the company how she should change the rules in order for your son to complete his work assignment in a timely manner or better yet, ask to have his job description refitted to better suit your sons underachieving skill level.

There is always the mail cart to push. You have made sure Prescott is able to knock down the present worker in the mail room, the guy with 3 years experience, the one working to support his family, pay his mortgage, contributing to society everyday of his life, happily, with a smile for each department secretary he delivers mail to.

"Prescott can deliver the mail, you just watch and see."

Hyperbole much?

Please do, fellow strong islander, please do.

It has been scientifically proven that the youngest kids in any grouping by age do the worst.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...tion_UEFA_youth_tournaments_2010.pdf.jpg

The same pattern has been seen in soccer, baseball, and hockey.

From the data shown, the only "fair" thing to do is break up the leagues by the month the kids are born in. It might involve a lot more travel to pull all these leagues together, but anything else is cheating the younger kids born near the end of the age cut off.

You are so naive. Your straight A little Johnny isn't getting into an ivy or duke without lax. Btw, look at the rosters for those schools and check the birthdays. Vast majority are hold backs. Better prepared for lax and academics.

Perfect post, thank you. I am yet to hear a valid argument against age based club teams and events. Reclassify for whatever reason and be a freshman again or later, but for club you should play your birth year without complaints. I am yet to hear or meet a parent of a reclassified kid who does not think his kid is a D1 level player. Well, D1 level talents should have no troubles at all hanging with their age year peers in club events.

Well said & well written!

The vast majority of parents in CT agree completely with your comments.

Here is what you don't get: if your kid isn't up to par academically to achieve IVY standards and the required academic index; then your hold back intentions are wrought with disillusionment. Just because an IVY shows interest does not mean that your middle of the class kid will get in; so keep an eye on that community college as that is where he will end up if you plan on winning a lottery ticket without the grades to support it.

Better off spending your lax money on tutors for junior if you feel IVY is unattainable without lax. [/quote]

You are so naive. Your straight A little Johnny isn't getting into an ivy or duke without lax. Btw, look at the rosters for those schools and check the birthdays. Vast majority are hold backs. Better prepared for lax and academics. [/quote]

your ignorance on this matter is epic, Mr. Cheater.

Do you really think your academically sub-par, hold back stands a chance against an age on academic and lax stud getting in? You are a fool.

You are dismissed from this class on reality.

(oh and btw; mine is already in; sorry to burst your bubble...did it all on his own and no cheating needed, thank you very much!)

enjoy your lottery chase of a pipe dream, cheater. get ready for 13th grade when your hold back doesn't cut the mustard

You are so naive. Your straight A little Johnny isn't getting into an ivy or duke without lax. Btw, look at the rosters for those schools and check the birthdays. Vast majority are hold backs. Better prepared for lax and academics. [/quote]

your ignorance on this matter is epic, Mr. Cheater.

Do you really think your academically sub-par, hold back stands a chance against an age on academic and lax stud getting in? You are a fool.

You are dismissed from this class on reality.

(oh and btw; mine is already in; sorry to burst your bubble...did it all on his own and no cheating needed, thank you very much!)

enjoy your lottery chase of a pipe dream, cheater. get ready for 13th grade when your hold back doesn't cut the mustard

[/quote] you mean 14th

I assume you are directing this drivel towards someone from Maryland. Couple of thoughts:

1. Maryland is not "the South"

2. I guess "luncheons, tea parties, socials, BBQ's with your buddies and your wives" are unique to Maryland (and "the South")

3. You must be a horrible lay.

your ignorance on this matter is epic, Mr. Cheater.

Do you really think your academically sub-par, hold back stands a chance against an age on academic and lax stud getting in? You are a fool.

You are dismissed from this class on reality.

(oh and btw; mine is already in; sorry to burst your bubble...did it all on his own and no cheating needed, thank you very much!)

enjoy your lottery chase of a pipe dream, cheater. get ready for 13th grade when your hold back doesn't cut the mustard

[/quote] you mean 14th [/quote]

all being equal the holdbacks win. Check the rosters and you'll see. How do you refute those facts? Great for your kid but he'll start behind academically and athletically wth the more mature teammates.

You are so naive. Your straight A little Johnny isn't getting into an ivy or duke without lax. Btw, look at the rosters for those schools and check the birthdays. Vast majority are hold backs. Better prepared for lax and academics. [/quote]

your ignorance on this matter is epic, Mr. Cheater.

Do you really think your academically sub-par, hold back stands a chance against an age on academic and lax stud getting in? You are a fool.

You are dismissed from this class on reality.

(oh and btw; mine is already in; sorry to burst your bubble...did it all on his own and no cheating needed, thank you very much!)

enjoy your lottery chase of a pipe dream, cheater. get ready for 13th grade when your hold back doesn't cut the mustard

[/quote]

That is the truth isn't it? 14th grade...

You leave your kid back in 8th grade- your reasons- too small, not getting noticed, needs time to develop skills, youngest in the grade, academically needs a boost... then let's say he does get a commit from Duke, Princeton, Notre Dame, etc. Now your kid has grown, but has only achieved an 88-92 GPA ( which is not bad, but certainly not entry for high academic schools) and your SAT and ACT are sub par... school now says the kid did not meet requirements, yet in your heart- you know he did his best- but just could not cut the grades or college entrance exams. They offer him one more shot- do a PG year- now he is 2 years behind and you are out a 100 grand for two years of private prep. Can the kid get the grades up? Can the ACT goal be achieved? Will they have already found a better player with no issues getting in?

There is already talk of early commits worrying about their SAT scores and GPA's. I'd hate to put that type of pressure on a kid. COmpletely taking away any joy of being a kid- it becomes work from 7th grade on now. Remember an early commit still has to apply to the school!

your ignorance on this matter is epic, Mr. Cheater.

Do you really think your academically sub-par, hold back stands a chance against an age on academic and lax stud getting in? You are a fool.

You are dismissed from this class on reality.

(oh and btw; mine is already in; sorry to burst your bubble...did it all on his own and no cheating needed, thank you very much!)

enjoy your lottery chase of a pipe dream, cheater. get ready for 13th grade when your hold back doesn't cut the mustard

[/quote]

That is the truth isn't it? 14th grade...

You leave your kid back in 8th grade- your reasons- too small, not getting noticed, needs time to develop skills, youngest in the grade, academically needs a boost... then let's say he does get a commit from Duke, Princeton, Notre Dame, etc. Now your kid has grown, but has only achieved an 88-92 GPA ( which is not bad, but certainly not entry for high academic schools) and your SAT and ACT are sub par... school now says the kid did not meet requirements, yet in your heart- you know he did his best- but just could not cut the grades or college entrance exams. They offer him one more shot- do a PG year- now he is 2 years behind and you are out a 100 grand for two years of private prep. Can the kid get the grades up? Can the ACT goal be achieved? Will they have already found a better player with no issues getting in?

There is already talk of early commits worrying about their SAT scores and GPA's. I'd hate to put that type of pressure on a kid. COmpletely taking away any joy of being a kid- it becomes work from 7th grade on now. Remember an early commit still has to apply to the school! [/quote]

You're a really good story teller. Can you tell me the one about the high academic achiever that reclassed anyway and took a spot from a true 2017 at duke or Harvard?Actually forget it. Everyone heard that one. Especially at duke, Harvard, Cornell.

Your poor sons have you for a dad and a southern belle for a mom. She married you for your earning potential because in the south, girls are brought up understanding that if they bare a son who will play lacrosse, he must be reclassed which means private school tuition and she was also taught to stand by her man, even if he is a JACKASS who doesn't know his geography.

Definition of the South as far as it relates to the USA:

The South, region, southeastern United States, generally though not exclusively considered to be south of the Mason and Dixon Line, the Ohio River, and the 36°30′ parallel. As defined by the U.S. federal government, it includes Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, the District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, and West Virginia. The South was historically set apart from other sections of the country by a complex of factors: a long growing season, its staple crop patterns, the plantation system, and black agricultural labor, whether slave or free. White domination of blacks characterized Southern politics and economics from the 17th century and began to yield only after World War II.

It is true what they say about southerns... If you believe it, it must be true.


Your sons cannot cut it playing with their peers, so you reclass them and pray for the best.

Praying is also a culturally accepted practice in the south.

Keep it up, your sons are going to need all the prayers your congregation can muster up.

Church of the Reclassed: Rev. Utmost Jackass, Pastor
Worship: Weekends/Tournaments

Of course commits need to worry about their grades and SATs or else their path into a good school will be severed. I concur that it is an unhealthy thing for a 7th grader to be swimming in stress over being recruited by or choosing a college before getting to high school. The sport has become a mental health crisis for the kids, and it is 100% the fault of the parents and the club / prep school guys who build their program credentials by commit counts. When was the last time you heard of a 9th grade club team listing tournament wins more prominently than commit lists? Seems like the competitive spirit of these kids is getting deadened out by the "headhunting" executive search mentality of all these club and prep school guys. As someone who was a D1 student athlete and had a great experience as a kid and high school athlete without this circus act, I feel bad for these kids having their experience so battered down. It is so sad.

Is the holdback pattern gaining ground in multiple parts of the country? Also, does this happen on the girls-side? What role do administrators in education/board of education members have in allowing "unwarranted" holdbacks? In the past it seemed to be a very well thought out decision , one w no other choice, to leave a child to repeat a grade. If private school I suppose less control by town/state administrative bodies. it seems in time that more will join the holdback bandwagon if it truly benefits the holdback. Is the pattern primarily lacrosse based or for all sports? Just curious. Thank you.