BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) 2020-2021 Women's Division I, II & III College Lacrosse Season

All this Big10 and ACC chest pounding is getting old. Crazy parents trying to lump their kid's team in with whatever conference, to somehow validate how good their team is? Here are the facts over the last 15 years... Big 10 has had two teams dominate, Northwestern and Maryland. They combined to win 12 of the last 15 championships. The rest of the BIG 10 has fallen short. ACC has won 2 championships in the last 15 years, both thanks to UNC, the rest of the ACC has fallen short. There is NU, MD and UNC, all the other teams just play in the same conference with them. Go win a championship then you can come back on here and pound your chest.

Have not seen any Big 10 chest pounding, although I have read several posts attempting to diminish The Big 10. The Big 10 women’s lacrosse conference was only established in 2015. Maryland was formerly an ACC Member Institution. Prior to the Big 10 women’s Lacrosse Conference Northwestern, Penn State, Hopkins and OSU were in The ALC...

Boston College went to the Championship game 3 times in recent years and Penn State went to 2 Final Fours in recent years...

Automatic qualifying great for field of 64 in basketball. Not very good for field of 29 in women’s lax. Most of fridays games were not close to competitive. Need to re think this in future. It isn’t growing the game.

Yeah, but I do not see it changing. There were a handful of good competitive games, hopefully the majority of second round games will be competitive. Denver and Stanford both looked good, not sure how Denver will do vs NU. The only two upsets I see for second round are Rutgers over SBU and possibly Maryland over Duke. Don’t think Loyola is strong enough to beat SU. JMU has come on strong so who knows? Anything is possible. Florida not going to let it happen again. I think ND handles UVA. BC should be fine.

Ok. The time has come for instant replay and as basketball has done flopping needs to become a yellow card. It is getting ridiculous the grabbing of the head when the stick doesn’t hit you. Every other major college sport has it. Almost all games are streamed now. If the ref can’t get a good angle then play stands as called. But this weekends games my god it was terrible after seeing it on replay. Also, stepping in front of shots after your beat is ridiculous as well.if you move into the path of the ball it is not a yellow-sorry. Refs need to do a much better job with this call.

Can you imagne how slow this game would be with instant replay. There are at least 5 referee huddles in every game that delays play already. The one thing I would like to see change is the fact that a player must be in a shooting position in the 8 meter in order to be awarded a free position. So many times there is a bad feed in the middle or a loose ball in the 8 meter and some sort of foul is called on the defense. So now they get a free position and the ball was not even in their stick when the foul occured. I would also give the defense a little leeway when a girl tries to dodge and gets surrounded by 3-4 defenders. It is a foul 99.9% of the time on the defense leading to another free position.

Miss on the Rutgers upset watch... Maryland almost pulled it off. All in all games went as expected. Stony Brook looked good too bad JMU had to play UNC... they might have advanced, they have been getting better all year, looked good vs UNC.

UNC and JMU both were dealt a bad hand having to play each other in the second round. Levy said as much in her post game comments. It did not have to be that way even when factoring in geography for unseeded teams, but the committee seemed to deliberately spare ACC teams from facing UNC before the final four. Now UNC gets SBU which should have been seeded over Duke. Watch out, though, UNC will be battle tested if they make it to championship game. Based on first two rounds: UNC, BC and SU are deserving of top four seeding. Big ten had some good but not great teams other than NU. A little surprised Rutgers was not more competitive with SBU which I think points to SBU deserving 5-7 seeding. It's too bad their conference schedule is never strong, and they don't get the benefit of the doubt like some other programs do.

More times than not (just about all of the time) it is the team with the best Team Defense and solid goalie play that wins The Championship. UNC Midfielders are pretty darn good as well.[/quote]

While that’s a nice sentiment I am not sure that’s actually true . Looking at some past years results there have been a few shoot outs and I don’t really count the pre-shot clock low scoring games as being about defense as much as stalling in many cases . I think a well balanced team is what gets you thru the whole tournament .[/quote]

Just another person who spouts nonsense with no basis on reality, facts or actual results. Each of the past 6 National Championships were won by teams that held their opponents to fewer goals than their season average. Team Defense and Good / Great Goaltending is what wins championships.

2014 National Championship: Maryland over Syracuse. Syracuse held to 12 goals, their season average was 14.4.
2015 National Championship: Maryland over UNC. UNC held to 8 goals, their season average was 13.5.
2016 National Championship: UNC over Maryland. Maryland held to 7 goals, their season average was 14.7.
2017 National Championship: Maryland over BC. BC held to 13v goals, their season average was 16.
2018 National Championship: JMU over BC. BC held to 15 goals, their season average was 15.7
2019 National Championship: Maryland over BC. BC held to 10 goals, their season average was 16.8.

Shot Clock or no Shot Clock, it is Defense that wins championships. There were no "shoot outs" and BTW, most would consider "stalling" a defensive tactic. Also 5 of the 6 years the team that won The National Championship played Man to Man Defense.... JMU an aberration on many fronts....[/quote]


You really are a bit slow and spouted so many nonsensical points its difficult to keep up.. You are trying to use stats from a single game to decide where a teams strengths are and anyone who has even a bit of statistical knowledge knows that makes no sense. Lets look at those teams over the course of their season to see where they stacked up.
offense defense
2016 UNC 5 25
2017 MD 1 17
2018 11 6
2019 5 5

Your attempt to try and credit a teams defense when their offensive teammates are stalling is sad. Looks like a top ten offense is a better predictor of success than your desperate attempt to say only defense matters . Again well balanced teams win the championship .

Different subject but was at SB game this weekend and heard TO was invited to team women’s senior USA tryout coming up in June. Person said US lacrosse invited 15 more kids to tryout last week via email. I didn’t see this announcement of new players being selected to tryout on there website. Anybody know any additional kids trying out. Why wouldn’t US lax announce these additions?

While that’s a nice sentiment I am not sure that’s actually true . Looking at some past years results there have been a few shoot outs and I don’t really count the pre-shot clock low scoring games as being about defense as much as stalling in many cases . I think a well balanced team is what gets you thru the whole tournament .[/quote]

Just another person who spouts nonsense with no basis on reality, facts or actual results. Each of the past 6 National Championships were won by teams that held their opponents to fewer goals than their season average. Team Defense and Good / Great Goaltending is what wins championships.

2014 National Championship: Maryland over Syracuse. Syracuse held to 12 goals, their season average was 14.4.
2015 National Championship: Maryland over UNC. UNC held to 8 goals, their season average was 13.5.
2016 National Championship: UNC over Maryland. Maryland held to 7 goals, their season average was 14.7.
2017 National Championship: Maryland over BC. BC held to 13v goals, their season average was 16.
2018 National Championship: JMU over BC. BC held to 15 goals, their season average was 15.7
2019 National Championship: Maryland over BC. BC held to 10 goals, their season average was 16.8.

Shot Clock or no Shot Clock, it is Defense that wins championships. There were no "shoot outs" and BTW, most would consider "stalling" a defensive tactic. Also 5 of the 6 years the team that won The National Championship played Man to Man Defense.... JMU an aberration on many fronts....[/quote]


You really are a bit slow and spouted so many nonsensical points its difficult to keep up.. You are trying to use stats from a single game to decide where a teams strengths are and anyone who has even a bit of statistical knowledge knows that makes no sense. Lets look at those teams over the course of their season to see where they stacked up.
offense defense
2016 UNC 5 25
2017 MD 1 17
2018 11 6
2019 5 5

Your attempt to try and credit a teams defense when their offensive teammates are stalling is sad. Looks like a top ten offense is a better predictor of success than your desperate attempt to say only defense matters . Again well balanced teams win the championship .[/quote]

Trying to use statistics to make a point when discussing DI Women's Lacrosse is useless because of the inherent lack of parity. Strength of schedule varies to such a great degree that trying to use goals for and goals against to compare teams simply does not work.

TO is not on this list, individual said that additions were
Contacted last week.

While that’s a nice sentiment I am not sure that’s actually true . Looking at some past years results there have been a few shoot outs and I don’t really count the pre-shot clock low scoring games as being about defense as much as stalling in many cases . I think a well balanced team is what gets you thru the whole tournament .[/quote]

Just another person who spouts nonsense with no basis on reality, facts or actual results. Each of the past 6 National Championships were won by teams that held their opponents to fewer goals than their season average. Team Defense and Good / Great Goaltending is what wins championships.

2014 National Championship: Maryland over Syracuse. Syracuse held to 12 goals, their season average was 14.4.
2015 National Championship: Maryland over UNC. UNC held to 8 goals, their season average was 13.5.
2016 National Championship: UNC over Maryland. Maryland held to 7 goals, their season average was 14.7.
2017 National Championship: Maryland over BC. BC held to 13v goals, their season average was 16.
2018 National Championship: JMU over BC. BC held to 15 goals, their season average was 15.7
2019 National Championship: Maryland over BC. BC held to 10 goals, their season average was 16.8.

Shot Clock or no Shot Clock, it is Defense that wins championships. There were no "shoot outs" and BTW, most would consider "stalling" a defensive tactic. Also 5 of the 6 years the team that won The National Championship played Man to Man Defense.... JMU an aberration on many fronts....[/quote]


You really are a bit slow and spouted so many nonsensical points its difficult to keep up.. You are trying to use stats from a single game to decide where a teams strengths are and anyone who has even a bit of statistical knowledge knows that makes no sense. Lets look at those teams over the course of their season to see where they stacked up.
offense defense
2016 UNC 5 25
2017 MD 1 17
2018 11 6
2019 5 5

Your attempt to try and credit a teams defense when their offensive teammates are stalling is sad. Looks like a top ten offense is a better predictor of success than your desperate attempt to say only defense matters . Again well balanced teams win the championship .[/quote]

No, a team doesn’t simply need to be “well balanced” in order to win, the team needs to be exceptional at every position. That said, I will bet on the team that plays the best defense.

Just another person who spouts nonsense with no basis on reality, facts or actual results. Each of the past 6 National Championships were won by teams that held their opponents to fewer goals than their season average. Team Defense and Good / Great Goaltending is what wins championships.

2014 National Championship: Maryland over Syracuse. Syracuse held to 12 goals, their season average was 14.4.
2015 National Championship: Maryland over UNC. UNC held to 8 goals, their season average was 13.5.
2016 National Championship: UNC over Maryland. Maryland held to 7 goals, their season average was 14.7.
2017 National Championship: Maryland over BC. BC held to 13v goals, their season average was 16.
2018 National Championship: JMU over BC. BC held to 15 goals, their season average was 15.7
2019 National Championship: Maryland over BC. BC held to 10 goals, their season average was 16.8.

Shot Clock or no Shot Clock, it is Defense that wins championships. There were no "shoot outs" and BTW, most would consider "stalling" a defensive tactic. Also 5 of the 6 years the team that won The National Championship played Man to Man Defense.... JMU an aberration on many fronts....[/quote]


You really are a bit slow and spouted so many nonsensical points its difficult to keep up.. You are trying to use stats from a single game to decide where a teams strengths are and anyone who has even a bit of statistical knowledge knows that makes no sense. Lets look at those teams over the course of their season to see where they stacked up.
offense defense
2016 UNC 5 25
2017 MD 1 17
2018 11 6
2019 5 5

Your attempt to try and credit a teams defense when their offensive teammates are stalling is sad. Looks like a top ten offense is a better predictor of success than your desperate attempt to say only defense matters . Again well balanced teams win the championship .[/quote]

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Trying to use statistics to make a point when discussing DI Women's Lacrosse is useless because of the inherent lack of parity. Strength of schedule varies to such a great degree that trying to use goals for and goals against to compare teams simply does not work.[/quote]

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Every year there are a lot of "Well Balanced" teams that do not win the championships.... As the post above points out, Team statistics such as goals for and goals against are not relevant in women's lacrosse.... You call a guy slow, yet you admit that you are having difficulty keeping up :-) .... The "single game" stats were not used to "decide where a teams strengths are", they were in order to illustrate that in that particular game "The championship game" the team that won was able to hold their opponent to fewer goals than they normally scored that year.... Nobody tried to credit a "teams defense" when their offense was stalling, just pointing out that most people would consider stalling a "defensive tactic"..... Nobody said "only defense matters", Obviously offense is important, It's just not as important as Defense when it come to winning championships.....

You really are a bit slow and spouted so many nonsensical points its difficult to keep up.. You are trying to use stats from a single game to decide where a teams strengths are and anyone who has even a bit of statistical knowledge knows that makes no sense. Lets look at those teams over the course of their season to see where they stacked up.
offense defense
2016 UNC 5 25
2017 MD 1 17
2018 11 6
2019 5 5

Your attempt to try and credit a teams defense when their offensive teammates are stalling is sad. Looks like a top ten offense is a better predictor of success than your desperate attempt to say only defense matters . Again well balanced teams win the championship .[/quote]

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Trying to use statistics to make a point when discussing DI Women's Lacrosse is useless because of the inherent lack of parity. Strength of schedule varies to such a great degree that trying to use goals for and goals against to compare teams simply does not work.[/quote]

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Every year there are a lot of "Well Balanced" teams that do not win the championships.... As the post above points out, Team statistics such as goals for and goals against are not relevant in women's lacrosse.... You call a guy slow, yet you admit that you are having difficulty keeping up :-) .... The "single game" stats were not used to "decide where a teams strengths are", they were in order to illustrate that in that particular game "The championship game" the team that won was able to hold their opponent to fewer goals than they normally scored that year.... Nobody tried to credit a "teams defense" when their offense was stalling, just pointing out that most people would consider stalling a "defensive tactic"..... Nobody said "only defense matters", Obviously offense is important, It's just not as important as Defense when it come to winning championships.....[/quote]

Wow that is sadly pathetic. Yes not every well balanced team wins the championship nor does every team with an excellent defense .You say team statistics don't matter in women's lacrosse ( an absurd argument) and yet your one post was almost strictly based on statistics. Yes you are slow and its difficult to keep up with how many nonsensical arguments you attempt to make. The above stats clearly indicate that many of those championship teams would have offenses that are considered elite while having defenses that would be considered very good but not elite.Your boyfriends argument about strength of schedule is also foolish as I did not compare two different teams against one another but a single teams offense vs their defense for the year so the strength of schedule is exacting the same.
So your defender daughter who wanted to play offense but did not have the stick skills for it does not get the recognition you feel she deserves. Time to get over it ,there is a reason your kid got stuck on defense .

It looks as though in this discussion, statistics are being used in two different ways. One is trying to use cumulative offense & defense ranking for the season, the other is using numbers from the championship game (goals allowed). I do agree with the point that statistics as well as a teams record can not be used to compare or rank teams in this sport.
The argument that the team that plays the best defense in the championship game or holds their opponent to fewer goals than they normally score sounds like a solid argument.

You lose all credibility with your ad hominem attacks, they signal that your argument is weak and not based on anything other than you opinion. You have also identified yourself as the type of person who makes this sport so toxic. In the end, the team that wins will most likely be the team that gets great goalie play, plays great defense (including the Mids), re-defends well and controls the middle of the field (in transition and on the draw).

Could you come up with a few more cliches ,controls the middle of the field is your best one . “...holds their opponent to fewer than they normally score sounds like a solid argument “ until you get a clue and realize that as the teams competition get better of course they would be expected to score less than their season average . As a matter of fact the winning teams have all scored less than their season averages. You lose all credibility because you are clearly uneducated and that’s what makes this sport toxic , clueless parents spewing nonsense because they are bitter that their kid did not make UA, was not recruited by the top teams , was switched to play defense. You don’t think that a teams record can be used to compare or rank teams yet the 8 seeded teams have made it to this weekend ,do you think the seeding committee just guessed .
The best thing about your entire post is saying someone loses all credibility when using ad hominem attacks while you are using ad hominem attacks .

Wow, the hits just keep coming... I think you might want to dust off the old dictionary and review the definition of an ad hominem attack as I didn't notice one in the post above yours. Didn't see any cliches either but that's neither here or there it's just his opinion. How you make the leap from "what it takes to win a championship" to... bitter parents because their kids did not making UA, not being recruited by top teams or their kid was moved to defense... is a bit strange and really makes no sense at all. If the committee used a teams record to seed the teams the seeding would have looked like this:

1 - UNC at 18 - 0
2 - NU at 13 - 0
3 - Stanford at 11 - 0
4 - Denver at 15 - 1
5 - Fairfield at 13 - 1
6 - Jacksonville at 11 - 1
7 - UMass at 15 - 2
8 - Stony Brook at 14 -2

Obviously the seeds were not based on record.

So whose getting the T? North or Scane? Nobody else close!

Why is Women’s US lacrosse not announcing the new college player invites to the tryout in June. This is quite an honor for these girls. Is it a secret between JL and JS?

Why do you care? Can't wait to post about little Suzie ball hog on your Instagram?

Ortega. She will win most likely and UNC will most likely win the championship. Look at the history of this award, that’s how it goes most often.

I think it will come down to Final Four performance (assuming both of their teams make it).

Just a thought, maybe they are waiting until after the college season is over. I agree, it is a great honor to be invited to the tryouts. Congratulations to all who were invited. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

I get it now, you are either brilliant at playing clueless or just truly clueless. When you attacked me (saying I am toxic..) and not my position that is the very definition of an ad hominem attack. The leap was simple ,this sport is filled with bitter parents like yourself who I would guess can't stand that their defense playing daughter does not get the recognition that the offensive players get so they constantly bring up the old cliche "defense wins championships" .If you do not think a teams record is one of the main factors the seeding committee uses it just shows how completely clueless you are.

Bla Bla Bla.... give it a rest already. You responses, your attitude, your attacks and your opinions tell us all we need to know about you. You know nothing about the people you are responding to or their daughters yet you believe you do, the same way that you believe you know everything else. The reality is that you do not. It has been entertaining watching you blow up though. I’ll go with the team that plays the best defense in the championship game will win. Just my opinion.

Any chance of an upset or two this weekend?

Duke over NW

Hilarious. Northwestern by at least 8

ND and Florida have a chance.... Maybe. ND probably the best chance. No dog in this fight so just hoping for competitive games. Stony Brook surprised me last week but don’t think they can pull it off.

Same here - just looking to watch some competitive games.

Interesting how the number 1 recruit in the 2020 class isn't listed

Why is that interesting?

I agree. Not interesting at all. The attack options are loaded on this USA team. Needs and additions are at the middie area where they need 7-8 players. To say not deep is not right but not nearly as deep as Attack choices on this list.

Had the privilege of being at SB vs NC game. Thought there was an upset in the making but NC stayed poised and controlled the last portion of the game. Congratulations to both teams.

Wow! Very telling games today. Great effort by SB was really rooting for them. I'm thinking it's going to be either NW or BC. Both North and Scane were lights out, the Tewaaraton is clearly between those two phenomenal players. Can't wait for next week's finale

Your comments shows your complete lack of knowledge . We get it you dislike Ortega but what would make you think BC makes the finals because they beat ND who 2 weeks ago gave up 18 straight goals against UNC . If North wins the Tewaaraton then the award should stand for something different .

Don't dislike Ortega at all. She's a great player and played very well today. The other two are notch up in my opinion, and their teams had dominant wins, where UNC barely survived as a number 1 seed. We'll see what happens next week.