Back Of The CAGE (BOTC) BOTC
We welcome back our VA Partner: Jes of JIVASph to our team! | Fall Season events are IN for Lacrosse players!!! | Join our Lacrosse Forum Community | Advertise & Generate more organic supporters for your business
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY BACK OF THE CAGE
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY MOST RECENT POSTS
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY Forum Statistics
Forums20
Topics3,798
Posts399,366
Members2,638
Most Online62,980
Feb 6th, 2020
BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY FOLLOW US ON TWITTER
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 41 of 44 1 2 39 40 41 42 43 44
Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
This is true. Parents move kids from a top four team to teams 4-8 and those kids that sat
on the bench for the top four teams are still sitting on the bench for teams 4-8. You are much better off sitting on the bench for a top four team. The simple reason is those top team starters will be recruited before the next four best teams starters. Once those top teams starters are recruited the bench players will step in and be seen. If you think that the bench players on any top four team could help teams 4-8 get better consider this. Igloo Avalanche's first year the team was made up of Black Ice kids that got cut and many former kids that played on the next three best teams. Avelanche was good but not great. This year they added a bunch of kids who did not make Black Ice and Blaze. One would think there would be a significantl improvement in Avalanche. However there was no noticeable improvement. As of now Avalanche is made up of half former Black Ice kids the rest of the kids coming from other top programs and they are still not a top team. There are arguments that suggest it is better to sit on the bench for a top team rather move down to another team. It is very dangerous to move at this stage. If it does not work out your kid may be on a B team the following year.

BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY BACK OF THE CAGE SPONSORS

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Great conversation!! I have also heard the argument that even if your kid isn't a starter on a top 4 team he is practicing almost daily with top level kids and receiving some high quality coaching as well.

Just a thought.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Anyone care to rate top 10-12 L.I. Teams at this age ? I know it is only opinion, just trying to find a team for my son and trying to see where he might fit.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Seems like you are saying that it is best to sit and wait your turn. Wait till the better kids are recruited then they will sit so you can have a turn in garbage time. You are saying the kids that got cut from AA teams didn't improve a second team,that makes sense. They got cut and had no choice. I think the discussion is about kids that made the team and ride the pine. These are the kids that can move to a club knocking on the door of the elite and get equal time. Some of these clubs go to the same recruiting tournies and offer an opportunity to play In front of the same coaches, only you would be seen before the coaches go to another field.
There is a lot to consider at this age. Is he happy? Is he getting opportunities. Is he playing? If he is learning to be a role player to the set starters can he be a difference maker on another team. Is he allowed to and encouraged to create or is he handcuffed bc the O runs through the big 4 to win.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
cant escape the fact that it is no fun to travel to tournaments and watch your son/daughter not get any light or barely move off sidelines....watching other kids have fun and contribute stinks...and the hotel afterwards is a bunch more fun when you and your kids can say they enjoyed the game(s)
seems like $$ would be better spent with one-on-one trainer...
yes, true that players get better against better talent, but they are still kids who want to play ...

BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY Sponsored Links
Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Blaze, Igloo,Icon, Express that's the top 4

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Yes these are the top four teams. we can argue all day who the next best four teams are. But everyone will agree that these are top four. Having said that I agree with post above that someone who sits on the bench for these four teams will probably sit on the bench for the next four best teams. The politics are the same if you play for team one or 8. The starters on the teams 5-8 are very good and most likely better than kids that don't see the field on the top four. I know last year bench players from the top four tried out for the teams many consider ranked 5-8 and did not make those teams and returned to sit on the bench for the top four team this year. It could be politics or maybe a bad tryout or they were not good enough but it is risky to move down to the next level of teams thinking it will result in more playing time.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Blaze, Igloo,Icon, Express that's the top 4

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Blaze, Igloo,Icon, Express that's the top 4


Ok anybody have a 5-12 ? Or in what order would you place teams to tryout for ?
Where would True Blue, Recon, Sharks, Jesters, Legacy place ?

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Only trouble makers will rank the next six team so I doubt anyone will do it. The teams you mention all play in the B bracket at tournamts except the last program you mention. With these level teams you chose by coaching, training and location. It does not matter who is best or worst in this group. The easiest team to make is the Sharks of the ones you talk about if that helps.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Blaze, Igloo,Icon, Express that's the top 4


Ok anybody have a 5-12 ? Or in what order would you place teams to tryout for ?
Where would True Blue, Recon, Sharks, Jesters, Legacy place ?

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
This is true. Parents move kids from a top four team to teams 4-8 and those kids that sat
on the bench for the top four teams are still sitting on the bench for teams 4-8. You are much better off sitting on the bench for a top four team. The simple reason is those top team starters will be recruited before the next four best teams starters. Once those top teams starters are recruited the bench players will step in and be seen. If you think that the bench players on any top four team could help teams 4-8 get better consider this. Igloo Avalanche's first year the team was made up of Black Ice kids that got cut and many former kids that played on the next three best teams. Avelanche was good but not great. This year they added a bunch of kids who did not make Black Ice and Blaze. One would think there would be a significantl improvement in Avalanche. However there was no noticeable improvement. As of now Avalanche is made up of half former Black Ice kids the rest of the kids coming from other top programs and they are still not a top team. There are arguments that suggest it is better to sit on the bench for a top team rather move down to another team. It is very dangerous to move at this stage. If it does not work out your kid may be on a B team the following year.


Some of the Ambush kids were on the Blaze at one point and have become part of the core of the team, so I wouldn't agree with that. Same with a few Avalanche kids who were once on Black Ice or other A teams that they sat. It seems that the second tier teams do best by picking up the better kids from the AA. My son can't crack the AA teams as a starter, so he is staying where he is, even if he made a AA team. I don't think that I would want him to be subject to the BS and take a chance of losing a good situation with a good team, just to play backup on a AA team that may want him at this point now that he is catching up physically. I really should hold him back, it seems like the thing to do, and his birthday would allow him to play in Denver next year.

BOTC GIRLS BOTC BOY Sponsored Links
Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Blaze, Igloo,Icon, Express that's the top 4


Ok anybody have a 5-12 ? Or in what order would you place teams to tryout for ?
Where would True Blue, Recon, Sharks, Jesters, Legacy place ?

I would say based on Head to Head Tourney
Ambush
Outlaws Silver
Legacy
Jesters
True Blue
Recon

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Outlaws Select, Avalanche, and Ambush are the 5-7 in that order.


Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Outlaws Select, Avalanche, and Ambush are the 5-7 in that order.

Agreed followed by the 2nd Outlaw team, Titans, Jesters

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
[quote=Anonymous]Outlaws Select, Avalanche, and Ambush are the 5-7 in that order.

WAY OFF!

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
cant escape the fact that it is no fun to travel to tournaments and watch your son/daughter not get any light or barely move off sidelines....watching other kids have fun and contribute stinks...and the hotel afterwards is a bunch more fun when you and your kids can say they enjoyed the game(s)
seems like $$ would be better spent with one-on-one trainer...
yes, true that players get better against better talent, but they are still kids who want to play ...


As a 2021 coach, this is poignant. No matter how much you know that a kid on the bottom of your roster will improve through the practice time with talented kids and end up a better varsity player, a kid has to feel like he has a role on the team and at least gets some minutes in most games. Small "elite" AA brackets are great for 100% high-end competitive games, but larger brackets with a range of competition allows the bottom of your roster to have fun and contribute. And at this age, even some kids with AA skills and athleticism haven't hit puberty yet.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Empire and Greyhounds are also in the top ten. I know Avalanche, Greyhounds, Ambush and Empire all have many open spots and looking to Upgrade.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
Outlaws Select, Avalanche, and Ambush are the 5-7 in that order.


Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Outlaws Select, Avalanche, and Ambush are the 5-7 in that order.



Do not forget Icon.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Blaze, Igloo,Icon, Express that's the top 4


Ok anybody have a 5-12 ? Or in what order would you place teams to tryout for ?
Where would True Blue, Recon, Sharks, Jesters, Legacy place ?

I would say based on Head to Head Tourney
Ambush
Outlaws Silver
Legacy
Jesters
True Blue
Recon


Recon, Outlaws Black, and Empire are better then Jesters this year.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
1. Igloo BI
2. 91 BLAZE
3. EXPRESS channy
4. Icon
5. Avalance
6. Ambush
7. Outlaws select

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Just for the record it's Igloo, Blaze, Express then icon.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Just for the record its Blaze, Igloo, Icon, Express

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Blaze, Igloo,Icon, Express that's the top 4


Ok anybody have a 5-12 ? Or in what order would you place teams to tryout for ?
Where would True Blue, Recon, Sharks, Jesters, Legacy place ?

I would say based on Head to Head Tourney
Ambush
Outlaws Silver
Legacy
Jesters
True Blue
Recon


Recon, Outlaws Black, and Empire are better then Jesters this year.



um.....nope. Not even close.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
It does not matter who is five, six or seven. What does matter is of the five , six and seven teams listed here Ambush and Avalanche have a history of making many player changes each year and they both are looking to make changes this tryout season. The rest of the teams may have a couple of open spots but won't make many changes. So if your kid is looking to drop down or move up to a top 7 team Avalanche and Ambush would be your best chance to make a top seven.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
1. Igloo BI
2. 91 BLAZE
3. EXPRESS channy
4. Icon
5. Avalance
6. Ambush
7. Outlaws select

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Plain and simple Ambush has always been a revolving turnstile for players , nothing against the team but they claim many competitive traits that will run with Blaze ( far from it) , and along with parents of those players who claim their kid should be playing for Blaze , its a mixture of attitude and denial of why they are not on the AA team. The green grass on the other side will get your son in trouble ! I know parents from an adjoining organization who claim their superstar will be playing for one of these top tier teams next season , BUT the fact of the matter is if you had adequate amount of training throughout the year , had adequate amount of playtime in tournaments , and decent coaching , but still have chip on the shoulder that your superstar should be the team highlight and is good enough to be on such and such top team , then stop and realize this ! its very difficult to crack most of those top teams at this stage in the game , Most are Core Group Teams with sight for 1 or 2 players to replace bottom roster players and possibly 1 or 2 stud players to give an edge ( usually stolen from another top tier team so this is an inside deal not a tryout) , this is a rarity because chances are they are already on a top tier team and are happy enough at this stage of their team decision. , if things don't pan out for their superstar the way they feel it should this can be detrimental for their son in more ways the another. remember the game of Lacrosse is Huge , but everyone knows everyone in this tight knitted community , you start jumping ship it will catch up. At this stage and age of 2021 stick with what works if your son is a good player and is surrounded by other good players, then Best bet is talk with the coaches on what their plans are and how can the team improve moving forward from here on in ,. Most of the time parents never give it a chance , its never really the kids who have the problem , its the parents who poison the kids mind with higher expectations that aren't really realistic for their son or daughter and it ends up biting you and your son right in the [lacrosse] , we have been there and done that with two of our older kids and we have learned a lesson stick with what has been working and watch Core teams grow at this age on..




Originally Posted by Anonymous
It does not matter who is five, six or seven. What does matter is of the five , six and seven teams listed here Ambush and Avalanche have a history of making many player changes each year and they both are looking to make changes this tryout season. The rest of the teams may have a couple of open spots but won't make many changes. So if your kid is looking to drop down or move up to a top 7 team Avalanche and Ambush would be your best chance to make a top seven.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
1. Igloo BI
2. 91 BLAZE
3. EXPRESS channy
4. Icon
5. Avalance
6. Ambush
7. Outlaws select

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
This is ridiculous , Parents rating youth teams so they can pound their chest at lunchtime at work. Get a grip. there's a place for every kid to play. Some better then others but one things for sure no one really cares about the arrogant parent who claims their son is great and plays on a top 5 team..

Get a life.



Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Blaze, Igloo,Icon, Express that's the top 4


Ok anybody have a 5-12 ? Or in what order would you place teams to tryout for ?
Where would True Blue, Recon, Sharks, Jesters, Legacy place ?

I would say based on Head to Head Tourney
Ambush
Outlaws Silver
Legacy
Jesters
True Blue
Recon

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Good luck at tryouts, there is indeed many teams out there , yes some are higher caliber then others ,and yes tryouts are useless on higher caliber teams as core group players will supercede and if any are taken in, They are inside deals !! Beware of teams with turnstyle reputations especially with longtime coaches present . Those are teams who care about "top ten" who chances are never won anything significant usually pissing off bottom end. There are teams out there who are underated and have a good system , just do your homework .. It's all in the research of what best fits your sons abilities . Ask coaches questions prior to making a jump to or from a particular team. Many coaches are up front with most concerns and many are not . If you have that time to research teams , contact organzations to get in contact with a particular coach of a particular team , ask questions , get a feel for what to expect at tryouts and what that individual coach plans on executing during season , it will make it more worth knowing if this is what you and your son want and capable to jump in , before you waiste time on a tryout ...this will save you money and agrevation in the long run .





Originally Posted by Anonymous
Plain and simple Ambush has always been a revolving turnstile for players , nothing against the team but they claim many competitive traits that will run with Blaze ( far from it) , and along with parents of those players who claim their kid should be playing for Blaze , its a mixture of attitude and denial of why they are not on the AA team. The green grass on the other side will get your son in trouble ! I know parents from an adjoining organization who claim their superstar will be playing for one of these top tier teams next season , BUT the fact of the matter is if you had adequate amount of training throughout the year , had adequate amount of playtime in tournaments , and decent coaching , but still have chip on the shoulder that your superstar should be the team highlight and is good enough to be on such and such top team , then stop and realize this ! its very difficult to crack most of those top teams at this stage in the game , Most are Core Group Teams with sight for 1 or 2 players to replace bottom roster players and possibly 1 or 2 stud players to give an edge ( usually stolen from another top tier team so this is an inside deal not a tryout) , this is a rarity because chances are they are already on a top tier team and are happy enough at this stage of their team decision. , if things don't pan out for their superstar the way they feel it should this can be detrimental for their son in more ways the another. remember the game of Lacrosse is Huge , but everyone knows everyone in this tight knitted community , you start jumping ship it will catch up. At this stage and age of 2021 stick with what works if your son is a good player and is surrounded by other good players, then Best bet is talk with the coaches on what their plans are and how can the team improve moving forward from here on in ,. Most of the time parents never give it a chance , its never really the kids who have the problem , its the parents who poison the kids mind with higher expectations that aren't really realistic for their son or daughter and it ends up biting you and your son right in the [lacrosse] , we have been there and done that with two of our older kids and we have learned a lesson stick with what has been working and watch Core teams grow at this age on..




Originally Posted by Anonymous
It does not matter who is five, six or seven. What does matter is of the five , six and seven teams listed here Ambush and Avalanche have a history of making many player changes each year and they both are looking to make changes this tryout season. The rest of the teams may have a couple of open spots but won't make many changes. So if your kid is looking to drop down or move up to a top 7 team Avalanche and Ambush would be your best chance to make a top seven.

Originally Posted by Anonymous
1. Igloo BI
2. 91 BLAZE
3. EXPRESS channy
4. Icon
5. Avalance
6. Ambush
7. Outlaws select

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Blaze, Igloo,Icon, Express that's the top 4


Ok anybody have a 5-12 ? Or in what order would you place teams to tryout for ?
Where would True Blue, Recon, Sharks, Jesters, Legacy place ?

I would say based on Head to Head Tourney
Ambush
Outlaws Silver
Legacy
Jesters
True Blue
Recon


Recon, Outlaws Black, and Empire are better then Jesters this year.



um.....nope. Not even close.


Look at the scores of the last time they played they Jesters lost to both. Recon has not played them but they have at least one a tournament.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
I guess Outlaws saw what it was like to play some good teams last week they played on Team 91 and was shut out and today blown out in every game.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A

Word has it Mass Exodus for that select team.


Originally Posted by Anonymous
I guess Outlaws saw what it was like to play some good teams last week they played on Team 91 and was shut out and today blown out in every game.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
That's true. Our kids had a rough day, but on the other hand none of them had to go home with a tool like you..

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Rough day? You should of kept them home in the pool. No one wants to play a b level team in AA

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Blaze is now number one. While blaze is beating the best teams in the country by a lot Igloo is beating sub par teams in PA in close games.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Seriously why so nasty? Do you think the kids felt good about themselves? Just leave it alone and worry about your own son.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Do you really think your kid wanted to come out and get beat bad 2 days in a row. so you can say your son plays on a AA team that really is B.makes for great facebook posts and backyard barbecue conversations with people who know nothing about lax.outlaws will never be competitive in 2021.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Question for you-has a single person in this whole entire thread ever once said Select team thinks they are the best, top 3, or whatever you guys fight about? The answer is NO not once. I just don't understand why you care so much? I'm assuming you are an adult and have other things going on in your life that are more important than youth lacrosse.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Do you really think your kid wanted to come out and get beat bad 2 days in a row. so you can say your son plays on a AA team that really is B.makes for great facebook posts and backyard barbecue conversations with people who know nothing about lax.outlaws will never be competitive in 2021.


I have an older kid, but check this age because my nephew just started playing. What kind of malicious tool bag rags on kids who played hard and didn't come up with wins. Do the parents know what tournaments the club will put their kids into when they tryout and how they will stack up ? Did your kid get cut by Outlaws ? Is that the reason for the hostility ? If not, why do you care and how does it affect you ? You seem like a miserable [lacrosse], whose kid winces every time you open that nasty hole in your face.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
I don't know if any of this is true but one thing for certain only a parent who is not confident in his child's abilities would feel the need to write a post like this.


Originally Posted by Anonymous
Do you really think your kid wanted to come out and get beat bad 2 days in a row. so you can say your son plays on a AA team that really is B.makes for great facebook posts and backyard barbecue conversations with people who know nothing about lax.outlaws will never be competitive in 2021.

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
IS the ambush team the same that played in the nlf 2021a division

Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Originally Posted by Anonymous
Blaze is now number one. While blaze is beating the best teams in the country by a lot Igloo is beating sub par teams in PA in close games.


Just because you say so?? No they are not. Until you beat Igloo you cannot claim you are better. Period! The blaze team failed overall this year.


Re: Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
blaze lost to Igloo 10-4 in qualifiers w 4 Crush kids. Lost Twice to Igloo at LaxFest at one point it was 9-0. team 91 is an excellent team w a great coach that the boys respond to. But until they beat Igloo consistently - Igloo is still the top team at 2021.

Page 41 of 44 1 2 39 40 41 42 43 44

Link Copied to Clipboard












Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4