BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2021-7th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016

Why would 2020 Crush kids go to Express? Holdbacks? It will be interesting as this is the year teams will start to pick up 2020 kids holding back to the 2021 year. It is risky for kids of the correct age to change to any team this year.

Meaning crush kids are headed to St Anthony's for HS

I think that the US Lacrosse has come to tipping point. The holdbacks have changed the age categories and no one wants to enforce of correct them. For a boy to play in grade 7 and play against 03/02/01s in ridiculous. I think this will change when insurance gets involved because our game is one that is not that violent but I think this is what it will take to get peoples head out of their asses. Every club owner is now incentivised to register their teams a year younger to compete. We played this weekend and we played 5 games. 4 of those were against teams that have reclassed. The one team that had not was in the same position wondering what division they are now supposed to play in. I understand this puberty thing makes things changed but the difference between most grade 7 and grade 8 lit alone grade 9s is physical superiority. They are faster stronger and mostly smarter. Physical maturity makes this age group a challenge but when you reclassify from a team of boys to a team of men then Lacrosse suffers. People have to start speaking out and doing something about it

YES, at least 3 Crush top players are apparently headed to St Anthony's in the fall.

Sound like a certain Hockey dad . LOL

TD you are a tool

My son's 2021 team played in the big four tourney this past week. Everyone on that team is a legit 7th grader, no holdbacks so that means there are 12 and 13 year olds on the team. They played Dallas and Crabs which had numerous 14 year olds playing as confirmed by parents from those teams. It's absurd. They are just too big and fast and it's really a waste of time for them. Do you really feel good about beating up on a bunch of smaller kids? You know it's a problem when you hear the goalie yelling and his voice has dropped or when the kids get off the field and are just laughing that they played a bunch of kids with facial hair. The competitive games were against other teams of "real" 7th graders. It's honestly sickening what's going on.

Big 4 tourney from this past weekend listed as 2017 - 2020.
Where are the 2021 teams??

I agree. What does being in 7th grade mean if you have 14-15 year olds in the grade? It means nothing and thats why these should be age or U based. It used to be ok but the parents are gaming the system.
Somewhere, a player will get hurt badly unfortunately, and a huge lawsuit will ensue and that's when things will change.
My son is a 2021 decent player. Should I put him in 6th grade now at a private school? Will that help him succeed? Of course it's because of academics and immaturity not sports like 99% of the hold backs parents claim.

It's very hard to schedule tournaments right now if you are an on-age 2021 team and want to play quality competition that is also on-age.

What was the final score of the Lax Clash 2021 AA championship?

Great showing by Icon at Crabfest beating Crabs for 2nd time. The may not be that big but real good lax players.

Question to Crab parents? Do you have any pride in your children? The idea that most of 2021 team is 1 to 2 years older than the team's you play (icon) and your boys get out played must be concerning ? Not sure what you think your sons are learning or gaining by playing against kids that are younger and smaller and then losing to them ? It has to be a let down to know your embarrassing yourself and the game to have a bunch if LI kids half your size beat them. We on the other hand love it!! Thank for providing the confidence building experience.

Did anyone else watch World Series of Lacrosse on ESPN? Great to have 2 LI teams in final. But Legacy destroyed Igloo. Surprising?

A 2020 team beating a 2021 team is not surprising. Igloo more skilled Legacy bigger

Legacy just simply played by the rules. I am sure if the birth dates did not change the would not have sent a team there, but they did and congrats to them. Igloo is the best 2021 team very impressed to see the Mad Dog team beat them but don't know if they had a number of 2020 kids but the birthdates worked for this. Again the teams just went by the rules, looking back at the qualifying games and these game it seems the Icon team was the only team to give the Legacy team a game at the qualifiers. Igloo is a real good team I do believe they only have 2021 kids but congrats to the Legacy team as they were by far better than all the rest. The one thing was it seemsthere were some real poor teams base on the scores. Why no Crabs team was wondering were they to old?

why. when you bring your 2020 kids to play. feel sorry for those kids that rode the bench

Long Island Hypocrite. All the crying about MD holdbacks and you beat your chest over an 8th grade team pretending to be 7th graders. Yep it was within the rules but so are the MD Holdbacks. All within the rules stated. I respect Igloo they are an Excellent on age team but the rest of you L.I. People are a joke.

To the last poster I am from LI and not all of us are crying about holdbacks, I know it is not uncommon all over the country and now we are seeing it on LI that many kids born after August/Sept are being held back as that we only be a plus for them in school and yes if he or she is a athlete that will help. I for one LI'er only base everthing on the grade only the grade. So please don't lump many of the cry babies on LI who wine about this as all of LI. If for have seen many of the LI 2021 teams play and agree that Igloo is the best don't know/don't care but guess they have a few late year birthdates but the are fun to watch, I also really enjoyed watching the Icon team, as don't know/don't care if they have late birthdates but if they do they will be late bloomers on their size, but their lax skills and smarts is fun. Over the next few years as college recruiters come to these teams that will not care if they are late year birthdates or not unless we are talking 2-3 older and those kids have already fully developed. enjoy the games the scores really don't matter on to a few.

Last year I held my son back a year in 1st grade from school because his birthday is November 17 and the cut off is December 1st. The reason for it was not for sports at all , I didn't want him to fall behind each year. So should I play my son up in sports or his age group. Any Feedback please ?

If it's lacrosse you can play him up, down, over or out. It doesn't matter, there aren't any rules. Real sports like football, hockey, swimming, tennis, baseball, and soccer have rules that govern players age. So, in most other sports besides Lacrosse your son must play where his age dictates, regardless of grade. Hope that helps.

Please tell me why kids red shirt.

Igloo was not more skilled. Igloo didn't even look like they belonged in the same field. They were shell shocked!

If I read correctly many igloo kids are born in 2002 which should make them 2020 grad years. Seems like they got beat at their own game

This whole thing is is hilarious. Igloo and its parents are crying that that other team was too old. They have been accused for years of playing with older kids. Now it's not fair.
Maryland starts piping in because they think its funny that LI is crying about playing older kids and what hypocrites we are. Well this was a tournament that had birth certificates and all of a sudden there are no Maryland teams to be found. Playing on age, they weren't even a factor. Doesn't that validate what LI has been saying for years?
The team wearing the crown gets pummeled because they played by the rules. Stupid rules that have nothing to do with any other tournament or sanctioning body or any other logical reason, but the rules. This team will not play together ever again. next week they will be two teams at a different tourney. Thats why this is stupid.
Will Black Ice be the same roster this weekend? Will Blaze? Then maybe they get to square off and play a 2021 championship this weekend. If they make it. The Greyhounds wont

Terrible game. Listen igloo didn't have one kid that could even dodge and draw a slide. And there is only a few months difference between TZ middies and AA middies. May/June to November. Bad lacrosse.

The ironic thing is that a few Taz kids actually were igloo kids cheating the system for years. igloo played 2021 with 2020's

Not as shell shocked as DELETED

Great points. It really shines a light on how much older the Maryland kids are as they couldn't even qualify for this tournament. Really shows how inferior Maryland is to Long Island if they played on age!

No MD teams to be found? Really Ray Charles. Maybe you should go back and look at the standings. Just because a team plays with on age 7 the grade kids and doesn't make it to the championship game doesn't validate Long Island's (wink wink) following the letter of the law. Multiple Maryland teams played with on age rosters that have had the same players since the start of spring. It's called Integrity something many Long Island parents/coaches lost over the weekend.

Was it really worth some mystical 7th....uhh...8th grade championship to lose your integrity? What about the on age actual players on the winning team. Did they enjoy their time from the sidelines watching 8th graders "school" a 7th grade team. Great memories right?

L.I. 8th graders did follow the written rule, just like Crabs holdbacks follow the written rules. Both are grossly inappropriate. But it's now ok because Long Island did it instead of MD. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

This is a completely illogical argument. The only reason MD teams went to the tournament with "on age" 7th graders is because all (or nearly all) of their 8th graders are too old. Their "on age" 7th graders are the same age as the younger half of 8th graders in NY. DOBs for all players are on the website for all to see. I selected one MD team at random and noted that more than 2/3rds of their roster would be 8th graders in NY. They are almost certainly all 7th graders in MD. This is why the "8th graders beating up on 7th graders" argument is lame and false. Due to differences in school cut off dates, and the prevalence in MD for holdbacks, MD kids are older than suburban NY kids grade v. grade.

What Leg did was take younger 8th graders, mixed with 7th graders, and won an age-based tournament. So what? This mix of kids is the exact same age, on average, as a MD 7th grade team.

Age is a fixed variable that can not be changed. And it has a very high correlation to quality of player (the older a kid gets, the better he plays). Grade, on the other hand, is an artificial, man-made variable that can be changed on a whim. Most importantly, it has ABSOLUTELY NO correlation to a kid's performance on the lacrosse field. I can take my rising 6th grader and enroll him in 7th grade next year. This will not make him any better at lacrosse.

Thus, when Crabs or other non-NY teams take older kids and put an artificial "7th grade" label on them, and then compete against younger NY kids who have the same artificial "7th grade" label, the former has an unfair systemic advantage over the later. But when NY "8th graders" play against non-NY "7th graders" WHO ARE THE SAME AGE, than no such advantage exists. In short, crying about 8th graders playing against 7th graders is only worthwhile if the 8th graders are actually older. But if they are the same age, than it does not matter what grade they are in.

Grade is irrelevant genius. All that matters is age you dope!

Ok. So the NY DOB cutoff is law because you clowns say so. That's your argument?

Look you village idiot. The team that won was not using the rostered players for the team. Wasn't a true roster for spring/summer. I bet the true 21s enjoyed watching the 8th graders dominate a true 7th grade team. Very impressive.......because you say so.

Integrity. Look it up. The Crabs of Long Island prevail. Que the clown music.

True '21 team?? Lol best igloo middie is '02 bday.

It should be all about the age!! Grade means [lacrosse]. Lacrosse is the Wild West of Youth Sports & it is getting much worse!!!

Hey Moron. What don't you get. NY didn't set the age requirements on this tournament. As far as rostered players, the players are exactly what was sent it at registration. That is called a roster you simpleton.
The real question is, why wasn't there a legit Maryland team that was entered... Let me help you...Because your 2021 teams are loaded with players that ARE NOT eligible because they are too old.

i'm a different poster. Green Turtle, Koopers, Bethesda, Lax Factory aren't "legit" ? what does that mean? They advanced via regional qualifiers and had decent records in the tournament.

By legit I think he means competitive. None of the teams you listed were in the semis.

I am also a different poster from LI. Turtle, Koopers, Bethesda and Lax Factory are legit teams. But the simple fact is that some of the kids on these teams are a year older than their LI counterparts. The 5/1 cutoff only benefits the NY teams because it allows them to bring age appropriate 8th graders where as the majority of lax players in Md born after 5/1/02 are in 7th grade not 8th. Look at the rosters. In NY, a kid born in 11/02 will most likely be going into 9th grade this September. Any talk of Legacy playing down is baloney. Everyone knows that this was an aged based tourney. Grade is irrelevant. My sons team has played Greene Turtle and Bethesda and we have great respect for these teams and players. They are legit 7th grade teams.