Use this thread to discuss lacrosse pertaining to 7th Grade Girls (2029 Grads) for the Fall 2023/Summer 2024 Season.

Looking forward to turning the page on the 2022/2023 season. Good luck to all the girls this upcoming year.

I'm just here to see if the self-proclaimed queens of Long Island actually register for that tournament. The irony.

Who is the “self-proclaimed queens of Long Island”?
If it isn’t your daughters team then, why do you care?

You don’t see why any and all Long Island teams would take issue with a team that calls themselves the best and doesn’t enroll in competion to defend such a claim? You’re a bright one, eh?

Didn’t Team 91 Roar win the last three Spring Queen of the Island tournaments? So wouldn’t that make them the Queen of the Island tournament winners?
Didn’t they also beat all the top LI teams these past 3 years?

I may not be a “bright one” but it is truly sad that you spend energy what another team is doing.

You shouldn't speak for "all the Long Island teams". I highly doubt they care or "take issue" with what other long island teams is doing tourny-wise.
Your demented obsession with 91 is evident.

My team has not faced them yet. I was hoping to play against them this year because my roster has changed a lot and we are now entered in tournaments as an A team. When they don’t defend their title they better also be prepared to drop the “we beat all of Long Island” stuff.

Umm...they beat all top LI teams in many other tourneys, not just QofLI 🤦‍♂️.

For anyone inquiring about 91 Roar playing in Queen of Long Island, they are not. Seems like it might be a kid asking about it. Don't be discouraged by the replies you get here. It's not abnormal for you to want to face strong competition or to follow teams in the league that you are playing in. The nasty replies that you are getting are just deflections. It's easier for them to say, "You're obsessed with a different team," than "we aren't enrolled in yet another tournament." I can also completely agree with the frustration when you notice that a team is being selective in its competition or lack thereof. But the truth is that there are only two or three Long Island teams that would not be a royal pain in the neck for 91 to play against in QofLi and come out ahead. 91's rating compared to YJA would make a single point victory advance them in rankings, compared to Top Guns they'd need two points. All other Long Island teams would require a pretty big blowout for them to move up rather than move down in rankings/rating. Yellow Jackets is faced with the same situation and I'm actually a bit shocked that they are enrolled in QofLi because of this. Tradition and YJNassau have supposedly dissolved. This is actually not good for anyone on Long Island who is looking to advance in their rankings in local tournaments.

This is so ridiculously dense. There are reasons teams may not play in 1 tourney or another- there is 0 chance these teams are analyzing the rankings like that. ZERO

Is this guy serious? Of course they do.

With all due respect, I think you need mental healthcare.

+1 for they do. there’s actually 100% chance that everyone in the top 10 are doing this there’s even evidence and admitting it in our old thread from last year on the last page.

It would be foolish for any team in the top 10-20 to enter a tournament where there aren’t games that would be challenging and benefit them. No idea who is in this tournament but if it isn’t “A” level competition I don’t know why the top teams would attend. Happens in Maryland all the time. You would never see M&D enter a tournament where they aren’t playing top teams.

Duswalt, is that you? Pathetic response but not surprising

Did you say that 91 can not be considered Queen of the Island since your “B” is now considered an A team?

How about enter the same tournaments they are doing or beat the other top LI teams to see where your “A” team stands.

That's the way the logic played out in your mind? This person said that they can't be considered Queen of Long Island if they are absent for a Queen of Long Island tournament.

What team are you?

Is the Queen of the Island a tournament that is still relevant for this age group? LI only has 3 top teams and the rest are b/c/d teams. Teams from outside the island like Primetime and grizzlies have to come in to fill a bracket. Going to worse without Tradition and YJ Nassau who were ranked in the top 20 or so.
At this point it is just a money grab by YJ and FLG who run the event. Better off spending the entrance fee on another tournament.

It really should end at 6th grade. Only 3 games, no playoffs or championship game. Is very convenient though. Its a great tourney for the little ones!!!

If rankings weren't a thing, teams would enroll in lots of things. You pay thousands of dollars to be part of travel lacrosse, adding $100 a girl for "Queen of Long Island" sure would beat a scrimmage on a dirt field in Sayville. But unfortunately thoughts like "Is queen of Long Island worth it" exemplify that teams are selective about the things they enroll in. Call this what you want such as "we need to match our level of competition" but the truth is that your kid's team is only enrolling in what's good for the brand- and if you're a top tier team, this means registering for tournaments that will keep you there.

Is you team igloo or Jesters Pink? Only 2 teams registered in the tourney that could match your description.

Duswalt

Sorry, meant Jesters Blue.

Duswalt playing in B bracket.

The "My team roster changed and we are now good" is def a Jesters parent.
Good luck in A brackets

What about Duswalt?

Earlier, it was acknowledged that 91 National is composed of players from 91 Roar, Thunder, and other teams. If USCL holds a policy that disqualifies teams with double-rostered players from their National Ranking System, wouldn’t this disqualify both of those Ali teams?

Doesn't matter. USCL just became a dinosaur. They ended their sponsorship of "The Nationals," something Long Island teams already committed to as their year-end event. They're trying to instead sell their own "top 16 nationals" and it's not really working. For one...nobody wants to play more tournaments in August. Also, it's a four day event. lol. Enough is enough already and some programs have college-aged assistant coaches that return to school in August. And then there's the atypical rule set and qualifications that exclude many of the top teams that would attend. They tarnished their ranking system by heavily pairing it with a blatant for-profit [Censored] of a tournament. I bet USCL proves me right by telling everyone they'll stop ranking you if you don't pay for their tournament.

Please note that the censored word was not an immature expletive or anything like that.

Any predictions for the "Lax For The Cure" tournament this weekend?

USCL doesn't post rankings now until girls have played 12 qualifying games? I guess we all lost our motivation to visit their website between August and June.

They start with 6 game minimum and move to 12 in summer.

YJ A, the reigning Queens of the Island, will go 3-0 and finish the fall undefeated and the top ranked NY team.

Not hard to do when they have a weak schedule, especially this weekend.

Urban Elite Black - Ranked 18
Eagle Stix Blue - Ranked 4 (ok, one top 10 team)
Philly Blast Drive - Ranked 28

Explain the logistics of this nonsense. Suppose my team plays six games and is ranked #20. Fall finishes, winter finishes, spring hits. On game 7 what happens to my team's ranking? It disappears because I don't have 12 games? It doesn't move despite others moving above and below me? A mess. The integrity of these rankings is getting more and more watered down every day.

If we were using last year's rankings, this bracket has the highest ranked team in the tournament in it. Downplaying the playing of the fourth ranked team in the country is goofy behavior. But, last year's numbers don't carry over. And you need a lesson on expected goal differential if you think this is an easy draw to blow through.

Lol, literally no one care about fall rankings. They mean absolutely nothing, especially when some teams have literally only played 6 games 🤦‍♂️.
Get in 30 games, then rankings actually start to hold some value if any.

91 got in 29 ranked games last year and didn’t play enough to be ranked in the fall. Should we just scratch out their ranking? Goofy comment.

Your fall ranking is foundational for the season, not only to create a baseline ranking system, but to establish matchups later in the year. When you sit the fall out and get placed in a doodoo bracket in the spring you’ll see the importance. Also rather important at an older age.

Are you saying the YJ A team is the 4th ranked team in the nation? If so, where is this posted? On another note, you might be the most obnoxious person on this thread.

Reading comprehension is a glorious thing. The comment thread you quoted in your reply already notes that Eaglestix is/was ranked #4 last year.

You are downplaying that the other two teams in the YJ bracket are ranked 18 and 28. The other A pool with 91, Top Guns, NXT and Monsters is harder with a tough matchup every game.

Coaches should not care or place any emphasis on goal differential. If your coach is determining their in game strategy and player rotations to protect their rankings then get out while you can. Player development will be an afterthought especially if you are not a starter or split time.

This is not a problem for YJ as they run every tournament they enter. They will always be put in a favorable pools with the best chance of making playoffs or championships.

The conversation isn't about what a coach should be focusing on. But make no mistake, every top ten team is absolutely focused on blowing all of the teams out of the water by more than ten goals. The play history shows this throughout. Unfortunately, you can't exist as a top ten team if your focus is on even play time for girls. Benches tighten until the goal differential is maxed out.

But the conversation was about how easy/difficult it would be to move up in the rankings, which absolutely has to do with differential. It's a relevant part of the conversation.

The real question is will YJ be able to defeat Eaglestix again? And will Monster be able to defeat 91 again? YJ will be the highest ranked team in NY next week. This isn't a compliment. It's just that they'll be the only NY team that played this weekend and will have enough games under their belts to be ranked.

The other person was correct, you are obnoxious. You must be a peach on the sidelines.

I'm not the same commenter that was called obnoxious Bub. I'm the other guy. The one that prefers conversations with ppl that can read.

Top Guns & 91 will both have played the same amount of games that count towards rankings as YJ after this weekend.

I can't bring up the lax for the cure results on my phone for some reason. how did the Long Island teams do?

It all went down as expected. YJ went 3-0 , 91 beat Top Guns and then wilted against out of state competition

YJA is the only Long Island that won their whole bracket.
But playing two teams that don’t belong in the A bracket gives a lot of people false hope.

Yj beat one ranked team…. 91 still would of ran them down if given the chance.

And here's where 91 comes in to cry foul. Just beat NXT for once and stop crying about the draw of a tournament. Every team in the A brackets were rated in the 90's last year.

wouldn't it be a bit embarrassing if you criticized Philly Blast's ranking but wound up ranked below them? better hope the math gods are on your side.

and don't be sore lost. you were the underdog against NXT. they're good. you met expectations. you could still wind up in the top 25 for this fall.

It’s not how you start but how you finish. 91 was unranked last Fall but finished the year as the top ranked LI and NY team. Another LI team was highly ranked in the fall but ended the year falling a few spots.

YJ parents are delusional
91 has beaten YJA over and over and now Top Guns.

After losing to a lower ranked team than YJ beat, this might be a good day to take the day off from BOTC. You're embarrassing yourself.

ES is a 5 loss team, almost same amount of losses as they had all of last year.....one of which was to a B team by 5 goals. Will they even finish top 10 this fall?

Congratulations YJ, clearly you are all looking for the validation that beating Eagle Stix by one goal was the clutch for you’re impressive fall season.

Nope. They won't. They have a strong Sched score which will put them closer than you think though. And since they beat NXT and 91 cannot, were do you think that puts them in relation to 91?

At some point does the coaching staff of either of your teams step in and say "hey guys, maybe stop with all the nonsense online. you're embarrassing us?"

We can already predict the rest of the conversation: YJ winds up ranked higher than 91 and comes here to boast. 91 fires back that they will drop in their ranking like they did last year. YJ fires back by telling 91 that now that 91 has registered for real tournaments this year their out of state record shows they'll do poorly. 91 digs for record of some game where YJ lost or beat a low ranked team to find another point of criticism. And the beat goes on and on and on.

Enough.

Seriously, its pathetic. You have let everyone know how amazing your 7th graders are.....we get it, but its unnecessary to do it at the expense of someone else's daughter. Stop instigating and stop responding to the bait.

Actually looks like they split 1-1...NXT also beat ES 7-4.
I wasn't asking about 91

It really is pathetic. Only if our 12 year olds knew how the parents conducted themselves behind the screens.
And I mean let’s be honest, some of the better girls can’t even make it to the higher levels because their dads are not paying up or kissing up enough.
The idea of even ranking little kids is just silly, but it’s what keeps the parents digging deeper into their pockets.

What's going on with the USCL site? No rankings posted. Some teams have certainly played six games (or 12 games if they're truly waiting for that). That site jumped the shark.

Live. Love. Lax is upcoming this weekend, I’d assume they’ll post new rankings afterwards as most top ranked teams will be there.
Just my thought.

It’s usually on Thursday. So maybe look for something tomorrow. Last year it was this week that the ranking began because most teams hit the 6 game threshold (or 9 depending on what they go with this year to start).

Just have summer rankings like they used to.

100%

USCL just released in their IG post that rankings will come out next week. They also released a date change for their national championship with the top 16 teams. It's by birth year which I think will make it hard for them to fill out a bracket of top teams. Unlike boys, girls didn't go to a birth year system this year.

The “National championship” is just another money grab. On age is fine but will affect the MD teams. Also MD has their tryouts two weeks before this. It is already awkward at try the mid Atlantic and Maryland cup with girls knowing they are moving to new clubs or are being replaced.

Loaded top pool at Live Love Lax. Hero’s, MDU, NXT and 91. It is going to be interesting to see where the LI programs stand in comparison to MD programs as a whole.
While this is the last tournament till the Spring season, MD teams have an advantage by playing each other all winter with the NGLL.

Hero’s swept again.
Can anyone beat them?
91 beat MD Unit and NXT, they will fall top NY team in the rankings.
Why was YJ B there this weekend, but no sign of YJ A?

YJ Friedman dodging fall, they played No one !!

YJ Friedman dodging fall, they played No one !!

Because YJ A played the 6 game minimum and went 6-0. Didn’t want to risk their ranking by losing this weekend. But they played soft teams. Be lucky to be top 10.

They didn't have time because they were too busy telling everyone how amazing they are lol

Because YJ A played the 6 game minimum and went 6-0. Didn’t want to risk their ranking by losing this weekend. But they played soft teams. Be lucky to be top 10.[/quote]

They’ll say Fall ball doesn’t matter to them.

You know they signed up for all of their tournaments before the outcome of the tournaments, right?

Not likely. There are at least two losses I know about this fall. that's probably too many to get them up there in the fall season. In the spring that would be a major move, but sched scores and expected goal differentials are well-established at that point. I guess we wait and see.

Correct and look at their opponents. They avoided all of the top teams from LI and MD.

Does fall ball really matter though? Save a trip to Maryland.
Top Guns went to MD and didn’t end up against top teams either.

Leave him alone. He’s just excited to be on this side of the conversation. Last year 91 was absent for the entire Fall and they got flamed for it. A lot of crying dads in blue Hokas convinced 91 to start registering for big boy tournaments. So here they are. Standing strong with this year’s OnClouds on and an inflated sense of accomplishment with their fall record.

91 #2
Nice work

not to take credit away from any of the long island teams that have made it onto the rankings board, but those rankings are insane. i know how the ratings work but to see teams with impressive records rated so low shows some flaws in this system. seeing teams with 5-4 record in the top ten is just fool.

Four LI teams in the top 10 is impressive. Great year for LI girls. Nicely done.

Looks like LI teams not traveling down to play MD teams helped them a lot. The algorithm seemed to like them playing each other. 5-4 and ranked 5th over two mid Atlantic teams who only lost to heros is fool to me. But kudos to LI teams. Summer they will have to prove those top 5 rankings.

Well you did take it away with what you said. Why even say anything? Of coarse rankings has flaws which is why they are notIntelligent in the first place but the teams with those records are really good and if you look at who they lost to, I'm sure they are to really good teams on close games which is why record is not a great indicator of who the best teams really are. Congrats to them!

Definitely impressed to see 4 LI teams posted… shows the depth in the 2029 class. I can guarantee we will see movement in the rankings come spring.

At what ages do teams stop to see movement and really lock in their rosters?

Proud of LI Lacrosse. Here’s hoping these teams can stay on the top this Spring

algorithm doesn't change. playing a high opponent strength score and achieving a high goal differential is all that matters. doesn't matter where you travel (unless you're someone who can't find high strength scores locally)

Get over yourself. When the 12th place team in the country has a record of 2-8-3, the 10th place team has a record of 7-5-1, and the 5th place team has a record of 5-4 criticisms are expected and frankly they are warranted. A losing record and a negative goal differential should never put you in the 90's or anywhere near the leaderboard regardless of whatever formula they're using. It's not a good look.

This. The system gave the LI teams way too much credit which bumped their SoS up a good amount. Never heard of tradition yet they are number 10?

The post about algorithm is accurate. The system didn’t have enough information to figure out what to do with the LI teams who only played themselves.

Look at NXT. Lost to M&D and Eagle Stix once and beat them once. Lost to Heros. Yet they are 4 and M&D and ES are 9 and 8? Coppermine who only lost to heros and M&D is 7??

Once Monsters, LITG and YJ travel south. Things will change. Team 91 is the only one who deserves to be up there above Coppermine, ES and M&D.

Biggest reason why fall rankings are kind of pointless.

I agree with most of this except that YJ did beat ES and is rightfully placed above them.

The formula is flawed, teams get to post cool stuff to social media. US Club ranking is a marketing company that has done a nice job of damaging the sport, it creates emphasis on a wide goal differential, coaches managing to a rating, brings down playing time, etc., knowing every goal counts towards a rating. US Club ranking organization capitalized on the frenzy around club lax and fool lax parents who are obsessed with being able to tell their friends at the tennis club their daughter is on a top ranked team. Its lacrosse people, need to relax, no one outside your sphere of lacrosse friends care. Someone above said it, if you’re a college caliber player, the brand doesn’t matter, go dominate a showcase or prospect day and they will seek you out.

Tradition is a town team and it is impressive that they can compete with the top teams. They benefited the most playing higher ranked teams.

Fall ranking are ridiculous because the sample size (# of games) is too low. One LI team only played 6 games while the others had 9. MD teams will move up since they play each other in the NGLL while LI teams do not play until the summer tournaments.

You've provided contradictory information. You can't say that one team benefits from a small number of games and another team benefits from playing in a league with a large number of games. Make up your mind or just stick to the algorithm. Rating is average goal differential plus average strength of opponents.

All of the stirring stops when 91 hibernates for the winter and spring.

91 is in a secret bunker, training and plotting how to maintain their reign over Long Island

Why do you make it sound so negative? Can you not give them credit as a good team?

Wink LILJ College Bound Experience- thumbs down. Would go again if it was $175. No more.

I’m a different person but I think they’re a good team. Their parent presence here though makes them hard to like. It might actually be burning bridges for their girls.

How would you take that as a negative? They’re the best team on Long Island… they lay dormant and reappear ready to handle business

They only played one Long Island team this season and sat out Queen of Long Island. Let’s stop inflating the dormant ones.

Taylor Moreno Goalie Clinic last weekend. $150 for a group clinic for an hour. Did she give out $100 Amazon gift cards to justify the price? Anyone send their kid?

Lol I saw that.. I think Wink gave her our emails…can get 2 personal lessons for 150…my kid had some reps with her at the stony Brook event a couple of eeeks ago…. Was ok..Weren’t splitting atoms…

Why place importance on the Queen of the Island tournament? Did any teams in the top 10 even attend this Y/FLG event ?

It's a small event and the 6th and 11th place team did.
But more importantly, the 91 moms on here have previously used that tournament to declare their kids "queen" or "best" when they show up and play (and do well). You can't have it both ways where you say it's significant enough to crown you queen one season but insignificant in the next season.

I tend to agree with you that the event has become rather insignificant though, if that's what you're saying.

What up with this USCLAX golden 16 thing? They said to stay on their rankings you need to submit a verified roster or they’d kick you off the list the following week. That doesn’t seem to be happening.

Verified rosters aren't due yet. And it doesn't matter. I would bet of the golden 16... more than 12 don't participate. This will be a tournament between the bottom 16. Unless they do away with the age requirement. Unlike the boys side, the girls didn't move to age based this year.

They'll never do away with the push for an age requirement. That's their sticking point, and while it's a noble cause, they've paired it with a for-profit tournament that's billing itself as the only legitimate tournament on the block.

Do you know of the official due date for rosters? I saw that they said on their instagram that they were requiring it each week or the team would be dropped from the golden list. But I wouldn't be surprised if this changed...just like their tournament dates. This company seems to be building the plane as they fly it. If you search BOTC for anything USCL related, the 2029 group is the only one that seems to spend any time talking about them. They've fallen into irrelevancy.

This forum is bonkers! Love it.

Yes. Rankings are messed up…..there is a formula. Work it!

Queen. Yes. Top LI teams play in it. Up till about 7-8th grade.

Showcases. Why are you doing any at this age? No college coaches looking at your kid. However….they are good experience for when it does matter.

Keep it up. This is great.

Mom here: 91 will be considered the best on the Island until another LI team beats them. It’s that simple. TG and YJ have come close but have not beaten them.
They also have the title of “Queen” since they won the spring tournament and have beaten the fall tournament winner.

There's lots I can say about this. One is that the best girls in the country are going to these things, even at this age. I see them there. It's the same names over and over. And they play on high ranked teams. If you want to keep up with this level of competition and rub the correct elbows...this is one way. These girls are absolutely making a name for themselves...already. I am one of the coaches of a top 10 team. I know the names of three girls that I'd love to have on our 7th grade travel team. Guess where I learned them. I need a draw girl and I fully expect to have figured that out well before tryout season.

Next, it's something to do in the off season. Something separate from our teams. Playing a weekend in a full size indoor facility is a breath of fresh air in the winter when practices are typically in the indoor sewers of Long Island.

There are ample opportunities for networking- with event holders, with likeminded players, with coaches, with parents, with competition, and with college coaches and clinicians. Some of the people running these things are young ladies that our children watch on television- they're the Derek Jeter of the women's lacrosse world. Our kids love working with them.

There are also lots of learning opportunities. With that said, some of these events are awful and awfully expensive, so properly vetting them is pretty important. The dream of your kid going to college for lacrosse is only a sliver of the pie chart of reasons why you might want to go to these things.

Get a life mom

Also, being a coach on a top 10 team... I agree with part of this and that is the having fun, networking, and seeing some of their role models at these events.

Don't do these events if you expect to get on college coaches radar. Our girls are 12-13 years old, a lot can change before 10th grade and college coaches know that and don't waste their time with this age group. With that said, sure girls make a name for themselves with other CLUB coaches. We all know the top players on the top teams in the country and can name them (by name or numbers) but, these events are not where we learned of them.

With all that said, it is an opportunity for the girls to HAVE FUN and play together with girls from other clubs. If you child loves the game, asks to go and you can afford it then by all means go have fun. But please don't expect to leave with the mindset your daughter is getting on some college coaches radar.

How is 91 doing in California?

The 2029 91 team at Sand storm is a combination of the Colorado and LI girls teams. Weather is beautiful compared to what we left on LI. The facility and grounds are set up so nicely. There is even enough places to park, unlike some of the other tournaments.
It is a good experience for the girls to play with each other and face off against different competition. It is great to see how much the game has grown in the US. There are quite a few ex-LIers who live out west and have kids playing.

Sounds like double rostering to me.

They win the tourney....13 team AA Division

How?

I heard there is a AAAAAA Tournament in Kazakhstan next weekend. Start up a 91 International and triple roster those little warriors.

But in all seriousness, how did they do against Urban Elite? They were the only team there that has ever held a stick before.

genuine question- what is the issue with double rostering. In soccer, it’s difficult to be double rostered when your kid plays on another team in the same league since you need a card/pass for that league (think LOL- I think LOL allows u to play as a guest though). Kids still do the double roster thing but play for Teams that play in other leagues like EDP.

For lacrosse, is it regulated in some way or is it just looked down on. I think I remember signing something like my kid won’t play on another club team.

Would be interesting to get people’s thoughts.

Team 91 considers it the same since they own all the teams. National teams on the boys level is very common. It’s just starting on the girls level. As long as you are playing for you “club” I don’t see why it is a big deal. You can’t play on your national team and regular team in same tournament.

You can double roster or join two or three club teams if you have the financial means to do so. However if both teams are entered in the same tournament, you can only play for one.
Top girls from an area that is not big on lax will join teams like YJ, M&D, Steps, etc. For instance most recently there were sisters from MN they played for YJ and the older one still played for MN lacrosse [Censored].

That is great, make fun of 12 year old girls that are great kids and highly successful at the sport. This has become non stop. Constant talk about a team that is more successful than your team.The constant foul words will NEVER take away from the hard work and accomplishments these girls put forth. Your obsession and jealousy is very apparent!
Maybe if you focused more on your own team than someone else's you may find more success.
Enough.

Edit.. meant to say LOL

Game is growing especially on the girls side in the south and west coast. Pretty short sighted to say that Urban Elite is the only team with lax experience at this tournament

Let's reach for the stars and look for anyway possible to bring 91 down. Jealous much?

They tied urban elite.

This is inaccurate. This year, season-long double rostering is not allowed. It is explicitly a violation for the Golden 16 ranking and implicitly a violation for the overall rankings on USCL website. You cannot play on two teams if you wish to qualify for USCL rankings. For individual tournaments, you are in violation of their event rules if you double roster at the event. I would post links to this, but not sure if it's allowed on this site. You can find it by googling "golden 16 lacrosse" and clicking on the instagram post from uscl where they outline this. You can find similar language under the "more/national champion" tab on USCL site. There is a new system for submitting verified rosters- partnerships/alliances/double rostering disqualifies your team from the Golden 16. If you have no desire to be in the Golden 16, I guess you just operate in the gray area of the rules (and truthfully, it's not really "rules" it's just that the site that ranks you says they won't). I don't think anyone's qualifying for the Golden 16 anyway.

I wouldn't disagree with you if it weren't for the fact that the games actually count in the season-long national ratings for all teams that play a national team and the domino affect on the rest of the ratings. I'd love the idea of these "National Teams" if they didn't count and didn't count for anyone playing against them, especially if there were "off-season national teams" that allow a little bit of fun in the winter.

Because we are talking about "ethics" here, it doesn't matter if the hypothetical I'm going to give you here is 100% accurate. It just COULD happen, or could almost happen:

Urban Elite enters a California Tournament with a 90.75 rating. They find themselves facing an unranked team, "91 National." However, the star players are the girls they have faced before and will face again later in the season when they play as "91 Roar." 91 Roar is ranked at 97.76. Urban Elite ties the team. You'd figure it would have an impact on their rating of +7 points. Nope. Based on the National team being unranked, their ranking begins somewhere in the mid to high 80's. This tied game winds up dropping their ranking and rating. Fast forward to June. Top Guns faces Urban Elite. The two teams would have had similar ratings/rankings entering the competition. However, Urban Elite's rating was artificially affected by the last matchup against 91. So now the expected goal differential is significantly higher than it would have been. Now Top Guns has to blow out a team that is likely close in ability to them. Urban Elite loses by 2, which would usually have no major affect on their rankings, but they are part of this whole debacle. So now their rating has gone up by 8 points because the expected goal differential was 10 points. And guess who they are facing next? 91 Roar- who gets another crack at them with a new artificially enhanced rating.

While this is only satire- some of it could happen. And that "could" is what makes it unethical to play the same girls against the same teams throughout the same season. Even if it's just some of them. None of use can calculate "how many" girls make a difference on a roster.

USCL is rolling out mandatory roster verifications which would disallow double-rostering across the season. Appears as though right now it just affects those seeking "Golden 16" status, but their intent is obviously to clean up rosters and birth ages over time. Honestly, these new rules might push people further away from USCL rather than have them embraced as a governing body. Nobody is going to qualify for their rules for a long time.

Is this a joke?? This is so long and ridiculous! Who goes to these lengths for 7th grade rankings? get a life.

91 gets another crack at them??? 91 National is not Roar, not even close. Roar will destroy them like they did last summer. Mind or own biss

He said that it's satire, but the idea of it...actually makes sense. Double rostering throws a wrench in the works and creates some potentially unfair situations, demonstrated by this exaggerated post. "Who goes to these lengths" isn't really the issue. The issue is that these residual effects occur UNINTENTIONALLY when double rostering occurs. Nobody is trying to slight anyone here. This is why the rule exists.

USCL is not a governing body in lacrosse. They can make al the rules they want but it is all moot because USCL does not run any of the girls tournaments. USCL needs the top programs to run their “golden 16”. They know that their rankings or championship do not mean anything without the MD, LI, and PA teams.

There is a reason Inside lacrosse does not rank club teams till 9th grade.

So you’re saying teams are being unintentionally “hurt” bc of this?

C’mon

So a team is ranked 23rd instead of 19th (just picking random numbers)

Who cares? The college coaches don’t

Mommy and daddy for sure

Isn’t the goal of all of this to get better and be seen ? (And maybe have some fun )

the 91 national team may have had 6-10 roar girls. Probably at least 4 or 5 Roar girls that are difference makers were not with the National team this weekend, True, 91 Roar will destroy Urban Elite this Summer. Roar team and National team are not equal.

Do 7th grade rankings count for anything? I think we need some perspective here. All the LI teams are great - this is a special class with a lot of talent, at least right now. What we should be focused on is creating a top notch Long Island league like they have in MD and letting the girls practice against each other. More camaraderie and less competition. A rising tide lifts all boats.

This would be awesome. It is worth the sidenote though that the league in MD is what really allows the top teams to solidify their rankings, whether or not you value them. Consistently playing top ranked teams seals the deal AND creates strong programs.

Ethics are ethics, whether it’s now or 9th grade. USCL isn’t a governing body, but they assume that status when they are the ones setting the rules for their rankings and are the only ones doing those rankings.

Unfortunately the NGLL will not be well attended here on LI compared to MD. It would be great if there were more top teams to have a league. Besides YJ, TG and 91 , maybe tradition, there is a significant gap to the next team on LI. I know jesters and Igloo are trying to compete but are not on the same level yet.
Also YJ will not attend because they have their own spring league and $$$ stays in their own pocket.

Does the NGLL (on Long Island) have a legit league or it just a tournament? Is there any history of teams attending this? Never heard of it. Interested. Also, does YJ have a "league" in the spring or is it just that a majority of their events are affiliated with/sponsored by YJ? Is this why 91 was previously playing in local tournaments that don't get a lot of attention? Were they sponsored by 91 or something?

NGLL started an LI league last year. They had the winners of the different regions face off in a championship. NXT vs Hero’s were the finalist.
It would be nice if LI was like MD, where all the programs participate. There are enough teams, 91, TG, YJ, Tradition, igloo, jesters, legacy, Lax O N, etc to get it going.
I think parents and players would be interested in this but coaches and directors would probably put a kibosh to it. One has to think are the reasons besides not being able to profit monetarily off it, are the clubs protecting rankings,looking after their their brand & image (W/L records), not wanting their girls to get poached by another club, etc.

LI does have a spring and fall league at older ages. Some teams participate. Some don’t. It’s not affiliated w NGLL

What league are you talking about?

NGLL is very similar to the little league World Series format. Starts with regional league (tournament). Winner moves on to national tournament play. Last year was in nc same time as ncaa womens tournament. This year it’s at coppermine facility in md.

Long Island doesn’t have all the best teams represented.

Looks like 91 will be participating, at least according to a NGLL Instagram post

Why not? There is an NGLL in LI

NGLL is for losers…….

I know you're not from Long Island by your use of "in" instead of "on." The short answer is politics, money, and marketing. But also, while it's easy to say that non-involvement by teams is nefarious, the truth is that things simply don't line up for every team always. It would be really cool for every team to play in the same league. That's for sure.

Are there any Long Island teams that comp goalies as standard practice anymore? Not "goalies for hire" or "recruited to fill a void" goalies, but standard practice throughout their program.

Elevate comped goalies not sure if they do since FLG merge. Igloo comps goalies.

Sounded more appealing before it was known to be yet another batch of out of state travel

NGLL is a good idea. But doesn’t work everywhere. Maryland it’s big. Because they started it.

Teams from other regions play nothing to make it finals. LI would beat up on each other. For 1 team to go.

Larger programs don’t want to participate unless there’s something in it for them. Smaller programs don’t want to do it because it’s a recruiting festival of their best players.

Goalies. Igloo is “free”. It’s not. It’s about $1k for their mandatory equipment. Not sure if extra training is “free” or an add on. Odds are winter sessions are not free. If you have a kid that is very good. And money is tight. May be a good fit. If your kid is a project. Get ready to watch them stand on sidelines at tournies. Even on non-A teams.

Goalie dad here, “free” tuition use to be the case when there was a limited amount of girls willing to play goalie. Now it is refreshing to see PAL teams with two full time goalies at different age levels.

Expect to see your daughter split time with the other goalie at tournaments with the coach playing the “hot hand” in the shortened playoffs.

I laughed at this post. Then I saw the updated rankings and I'm wondering if Nostradamus has a lacrosse daughter.

What do you mean?

You know that teams do not care about goal differential when they are playing? If your daughter’s team wins a game but doesn’t cover the goal differential, do you tell her she “lost”? Or if they lose to an opponent but not by the goal differential do you tell your daughter that they “won”?

FYI the 91 national team will drop out of the rankings once the summer season kicks off as they won’t meet the minimum amount of games played.

Let the girls play and stop worrying about all the metrics of rankings.

Or stop entering double rostered girls into ranked competition, aka following the rules.

good or bad, my daughter's team's bench stays very warm until the goal differential has been maxed out. this is a reality of some high rated teams. li teams don't get a lot of shots at playing mid atlantic teams with a high rating so when they do...it counts. but this conversation doesn't seem to be about how many goals makes a girl or her team a winner or a lost it seems to be more about the entry of double rostered girls into ranked games that affect the standings---and the required goal differential to move up or down actual positions in rankings. those are very different things. not talking about feeling like winners or losers here, talking about goals required to advance.

if only the affect on the rankings that the 91 national team had will also drop out of the metrics.

So I could travel 4-5 hrs to a tourney, and we could be winning by 7 goals and my kid doesn't get in because we need to win by 9 for rankings sake?
Thats really sad. Idk why parents would put up with that and stay on the team, especially at this age where player development is so important and rankings mean nothing (except to few parets or coaches like yourself)

If your kid’s team is up by 7 and your kid hasn’t left the bench, it’s not because of the rankings.

Excelsior games. Yes or no?

No

American select. yes or no

First kid playing lax and had the same questions about excelsior games and American select. Seems like money grab since the girls are not close to their recruiting years. However parents on my daughters team are talking about if you don’t get on the teams now then you will be shut out of 3-4 years where it is important to be seen.

I’m conflicted on what to do because of money, time, etc.

If your kid wants to just have fun, Excelsior games is a good experience but it's not very competitive. Nassau and Suffolk are easily the strongest teams. American Select is a competitive tournament and brings in talent from all over the country. It all depends on what type of experience you want for your kid.

I do not think it's true that if you don't start American Select you will be shut out. Every year the 2029 team has different coaches and, theoretically, different evaluators. Not to mention, if your kid plays on a team where they are already seen, it's really not a necessity in 3-4 years anyway. Top reasons people do American Select at this age are #1 FOMO and #2 you think the experience will be worth the money and the travel. As many other people will say, at this age your kid would probably be better served if you saved the money and put it towards training.

Everything up until 10th grade is a money grab. But….if your kid wants to play more, or get some experience with tryouts and showcases. Then there is some benefit. Just because you make a team as a 7th grader. Doesn’t mean they’ll make it as a sophomore.

New to lax so the best years for recruiting is 9/10 grade. American select sounds like a grand or so, sure it’s a good experience but might use that money elsewhere.

Alot of money grabs out there best advise for my kid to get better. Private lessons, lax camp etc.

Private lessons and small group trainings with other players at her level or slightly better. Practice.

The parents of your daughter’s team are more in tune with things than the other commenters here will let on. Participating in these camps/showcases/clinics/events now definitely fastracks your kid for future endeavors and gets her recognition sooner than later. For example: if you played in Players Open this year, you save the application fee and process next year. And your name is already on file with the Wink endeavors associated with LILJ, Excelsior, etc.

When did Wink become God of Long Island Lacrosse? And someone should take his crown because he is more worried about pleasing family members and lining his pockets.

Best in class. Yes or no?

Despite a somewhat torrid history in this sport, he is recently putting on a pretty good show of offerings for girls lacrosse. His LILJ is doing a great job at publicizing the sport and giving recognition to LI girls, his showcases do a (comparatively) good job at providing high quality competition and multi-faceted events, his programs for older girls are top notch and they cross his endeavors over into school ball. You're welcome to grab his "crown" and establish your own kingdom, but you've got a lot of work ahead of you in terms of providing the types of things he is providing for the sport. And yes, it likely comes with its monetary rewards. Some of his programs are indeed expensive.

Not a 2029 event. So no.

He is a money-hungry braggart. If you think he is a good guy, you are mistaken. Period!

I don’t think anyone said anything about him being a good guy or accused him of being a charity. He offers a service that people are willing to pay for. It’s that simple. It’s hard to understand the frustration with him if you think that his programs are hogwash. Just don’t enroll and sleep well at night knowing you weren’t part of something you view as a money grab. But I think with the vocalized frustration comes an underlying feeling that your kid is being left out of things that may have some merit. Let’s be honest.

Was just making a general statement about him.

You basically need to pay the piper if you want to be on lists, get Instagram posts. Or make certain teams.

However. It’s not just wink. It’s the entire system of club sports. Not just lax.

Not defending it in anyway, but I see it with other sports too. If your kid can play and get better they’ll be fine with any club, showcase or camp they attend.

Unfortunately, you have too many people like Wink in decision-making positions that can directly affect the future of your daughter. He is bad for the game of lacrosse.

True lacrosse people who have been around the sport for a long time know Wink and the LILJ are a joke. Pay to be recognized, even if you don’t deserve it!

Regarding his FLG business, it will come to an end soon enough. They have no idea how to run a competitive travel program. His Girls program will follow the same future as his boys program did.

Totally agree. My daughter went through all of it and we got [Censored] in too early! Spent a lot of extra money! Use your money for training and getting better. Choose events that include lots of training as part of the event! Not just games.

Make it so the talent/skills are undeniable by 8th/9th grade. Then she should be “playing “ on the best 8th grade club team for her talent level possible. Start worrying about those recruiting events 9th grade on. NO one is looking at any 8th graders anymore! The 9th and 10th grade fall/summer events are the most important as far as recruiting goes.

I Don’t know anything about his club. But the LILJ programs he’s running for the girls in the off seasons of travel have been wonderful for my daughter’s development! He’s offering a lot of opportunity to keep playing for the girls and I know for a fact my daughter benefitted from the extras he has created for LI lacrosse. His staff is also great. The videos we were able to get from his programs and leagues were very valuable to my daughters recruiting efforts. The quality was 1000% better than any summer club tournament video from 500’ away filming. . They have an amazing video guy. We were able to get so many good clips to help in then recruiting process for highlights.

I really do think they provide a much needed service to LI lacrosse community. The clubs have been making so much off the kids forever. They actually bring all the clubs and LI lacrosse kids together to get better together! It is a business and they make money for a very valuable service they are providing. You just have to pick and choose which event to do based on your daughter’s age and abilities.

The LILJ leagues my daughter participated in were great. Playing against the other LI girls definitely made her a better player. They really do provide a great service as far as that is concerned.

Think tradition 2029 will stay together next year?

Look at how many of the 2025’s went D1. 2029’s should stay together.

New Balance All-America games are 1/3 of the cost of American Select. These games used to be called the Under Armour All-America Games. The senior game for this event is televised live on ESPN and the best players across the country participate in it. American Select is a pure money grab unless your daughter is on the top team, which is black for LI.

Irrelevant here. It is not a 2029 graduation year event, so it is no alternative for what's already being offered. It also attracts no attention unless you're a 91 fanboy.

Further, please allow me to offer a bit of advice with regard to listening to those "it's just a money grab" voices you hear after EVERY event is offered. I can DEFINITIVELY say that that my daughter's acceptance into these exhibitions/camps/showcases/select teams has absolutely put her in front of the right people and has led to being recognized and considered for a key position on her school's team and for some other important things.

You are completely out of your mind. But you are probably trying to justify the thousands of dollars you spent on these events. No college coach is looking at 2029s. None. They are working on 2025 and will start to heavily look at 2026s this summer. Signing up for the all American select team in 7th grade is a money grab. Plain and simple. If you think your high school coach is giving your kid playin time based on her selection for the 2029 all Long Island games you are out of your mind.. Most likely your daughter is getting playing time because she is a good player. Her selection to to the all Long Island games has nothing to do with it.

When does NB All American start? I don’t think for 2029s…

NB All American starts in 8th grade. After seeing how American select was run, I look forward to seeing how this tryout goes.

Guessing your child didn’t make Black? Other than one girl, I thought tryouts had a fair outcome. Top Guns significantly underrepresented for a highly ranked team but I don’t think there were many TG girls at the tryout.

While nobody has ever made the argument that colleges are watching 7th graders, you could absolutely take a look at the sports recruits page of any D1 committed 12th grader and see that they were collecting resume bullets all the way back in 2017. These things matter. They pave the way and get your foot in the door.

Also, you can't dismiss the fact that being a return participant/applicant for one of these programs has an effect on participating again in the future for the years that do attract college attention. Being a participant now does absolutely get you preferential treatment for future endeavors, both within that program and within its affiliate networks.

Whether it's a school coach or a select team coach, sometimes already being validated by another program helps make the decision between two prospects.

No matter your position on the worthiness of these events, they certainly have more merit than sitting on the couch and playing video games as you mutter that everyone else is wasting their money. Experiences are experiences.

quote=Anonymous]Guessing your child didn’t make Black? Other than one girl, I thought tryouts had a fair outcome. Top Guns significantly underrepresented for a highly ranked team but I don’t think there were many TG girls at the tryout.[/quote]
She did not make black but was offered Red which we politely declined. We were hoping that “The tryout process will be unlike any other, with collegiate coaches evaluating and selecting players. Club coaches will not be selecting the teams.”
Were some girls preordained with a spot on Black and Red? Did YJ make sure to take care of their own? Could the same happen with NB AA depending on who runs it for them for LI? YES to all

If you want to spend thousands on these events in 7th grade then go for it. I have no issue with what people spend their money on. My point was simple. These events at this age have no value when it comes to recruiting later on. No college coach is going to care you got selected to the All American select games in 7th grade. And your point kind of solidifies my argument. If getting selected one year gives you preferential treatment shouldn’t it just be the best players selected? My kids continually get “invites” to Apex games etc. They have never even tried out.

College coaches are paid to be at these events. And if you notice it’s always assistants at these events. It’s a side hustle for them because they don’t make any money. That’s how they market it. This is my 4th kid in travel. Based on my experience there’s way more value in spending money on propspect days as they get older. Your kid will get a much better look than a few minutes of playing time on a team with a roster of 25. And like I said…..they aren’t looking at any 7th, 8th or even 9th graders.

She did not make black but was offered Red which we politely declined. We were hoping that “The tryout process will be unlike any other, with collegiate coaches evaluating and selecting players. Club coaches will not be selecting the teams.”
Were some girls preordained with a spot on Black and Red? Did YJ make sure to take care of their own? Could the same happen with NB AA depending on who runs it for them for LI? YES to all[/quote]

American Select's black team has 24 girls on it. They are all YJ and 91 girls. YJ and 91's A teams have a total of almost 50 girls on them. These are the two top ranked teams on Long Island, both in the top six ranked teams in the nation this year. Is it not possible that the best 50% of each of the two best teams on Long Island result in the best roster on Long Island, especially when considering those who didn't even show up? College coaches validating reality isn't necessary corruption.

She did not make black but was offered Red which we politely declined. We were hoping that “The tryout process will be unlike any other, with collegiate coaches evaluating and selecting players. Club coaches will not be selecting the teams.”
Were some girls preordained with a spot on Black and Red? Did YJ make sure to take care of their own? Could the same happen with NB AA depending on who runs it for them for LI? YES to all[/quote]

The problem with your argument is that the girls who were selected are indeed elite girls that participate in every elite event that you hear about. Has your daughter ever outperformed a 91 or YJ A girl somewhere?

It’s like anything else- if your kid is on TGA this year, she’s more likely to be on TGA again next year, partially because “they got it right” by flagging her as the best at the position, partially because she’s someone the team can already rely on as a loyal participant in the program and she’s given them no reason to look elsewhere. Same applies to all of these select teams. It’s an error in logic to assume that a girl who was reinvited isn’t also a good selection.

APEX is the bowels of girls lacrosse. You put four girls through travel and didn’t realize that? Their spam is not an invite. A true “invite” for these types of showcases involves complimentary participation and doesn’t occur frequently at this age.

The Apex comment was sarcasm. Obviously you aren’t very bright. Carol Rose and her friends from Steps literally own this event(and the 2 biggest lax events over the summer) They are laughing all the way to the bank. The black rosters are literally 98 percent yellow jackets. I know multiple girls who weren’t selected when with top guns, jesters etc and then switched to yellow jackets and then magically made the black team the next year. She will never put a top guns person on the black roster due to her longstanding feud with Shannon Smith. The same applies for the all Long Island games (another carol rose/flg owned event)

And again you are still deflecting. No college coach is looking at your 7th grade girl. And no college coach will care that your daughter was selected to the black team in 7th grade.

It's annoying to communicate with someone that makes up facts and makes pompous comments only to pretend that they were sarcasm. There are too many notions to correct here, so I'll start with the obvious:

The black LI American Select rosters are not "literally 98 percent" Yellow Jacket. They are 78 percent Yellow Jacket.
The Long Island Games for 2029 DID have a Top Guns girl selected in the first round of announcements.
There is no deflection. Nobody here, including me, has made the point that a college coach is looking at 7th graders. The point is that the things you involve yourselves in today result in opportunities for tomorrow. It's funny that if all of the collusion and corruption that you allege was 100% true, then YOU WOULD BE MAKING THE SAME POINT.


Enjoy having the last word if you wish. As you've resorted to name calling, this will be my last response.

Am I wrong or did Top Guns simply not participate in any of the events listed on the LILJ webpage, the list they note that they used for scouting girls for the All Long Island Games? Sounds like a “duh” moment to me.

You said that todays top recruits were building theirs resume from 7th grade on. You also said these events have an impact on your high school coaches decisions. All silly statements. Best line is it’s not 98 percent yellow jackets. It’s only 78 percent yellow jackets. That’s great. All black teams have the most 4 non yellow jackets. This age is different because spallina is the coach of 91. If he wasn’t you wouldn’t see a 91 girl on the All American select hazel team…..no matter how good she was. I’m glad this is your last post. You are obviously new to this game. Have fun in Delaware.

Here is your statement that started the whole thing

“I can DEFINITIVELY say that that my daughter's acceptance into these exhibitions/camps/showcases/select teams has absolutely put her in front of the right people and has led to being recognized and considered for a key position on her school's team and for some other important things.”

I rest my case

To the guy(s) responding to that parent. He's bitter his kid didn't get put on the black team. There's nothing you can say to make him change his mind about how awful the event and programs are now. This is not worth your time.

That’s always the comeback. You are just mad your kid got cut. I actually didn’t even have my daughter try out. Why? Because I spent almost 800 bucks on a similar type event for my son in 7th grade. He was even selected to the “all star game “ After going through the recruiting process with him I now realize it was a waste of money. All his college coach cared about was his current film (10th and 11th) and most importantly his grades. If my son would have sent him video of his 7th grade performance his college coach probably would have laughed.

Like I said before I have no issue with people who decide to do these events. My issue was with the original poster who said it was putting her kids in front of the right people in 7th grade and “building her resume” She also said it was having an impact on her high school coaches decisions to play her kid. Both are absurd statements.

Mind boggling that someone assumes every reply to him is the same person

Does anyone know the varsity/junior varsity rules about roster hopping from one level to another and where I can find it in writing?

No desire to go back and read this thread but didn’t this guy say his kid made red not black and he declined?

Negative. That was a top guns parent who declined the red invitation.

Not sure where you can find in writing but I do know you cannot play a game for both teams in the same day but you can play for both teams. In other words, you can't play two games in one day.

Is there a B Yellow Jackets team? Jesters and Igloo don’t have competitive teams, right? Or Liberty I guess - who does have a good 2028. Wonder if there will be any movement pre season for a few girls

You're in the 2029 thread.

Visit US Clublax's site for rankings for whichever year you're looking for and you'll see how they rank. Should be able to identify which the B teams are.

Anyone go to media night at susa yesterday? We were in and out in 20 minutes. Expected it to be much longer.

How many 29s get invited to play in the All LI game 48?

Last year was 48 ish I believe, this year is around 106 players is what I counted.
Event has lost all merit and is now solely about bringing in the $$$$.

This is event has always been a money grab. Now they just have more suckers.

this event absolutely never had any merit

Agreed. I assume Wink got complaints about almost all the girls being on 91 or YJ A and decided to make two more teams. Cha - ching.

The girls that were chosen for LILJ Games (initially at least) were all girls that participated in the events that are listed on the LILJ webpage as being events that you could attend to be considered for the LILJ Games. If you stayed home for these money grabs, just keep staying home for the ones they lead to.

$300 for a day of lacrosse with some good competition on the field, and it includes some photos for grandma. Merit enough for me. Keeps my kid off of TikTok.

Are the numbers that big at all ages?

That is totally 100 percent absolutely false. My daughter and many of her teammates that got selected never went to an LILJ event…..ever. That’s just their way of taking more money from you. If you like the event then go have fun. But one thing you can’t do is act like this event is a collection of the best talent on Long Island.

Not only is this probably impossible, but it’s a really strange position to take. Your kid was supposedly chosen, without an inkling of it possibly being due to Wink brand loyalty, yet you criticize it not being a true collection of talent. Bizarre.

I know someone is going to do the math on this one and figure out if it’s even possible for any of the girls who were selected to have not attended a wink event (pretty sure that 100% of the “initial” string of girls are easily identified as having participated in LILJ covered/affiliated events).

It’s not a take it’s just a fact And if you want to dispute it’s actually even worse on the biys side Most of the boys did not attend any “LILJ” events . There’s almost no boys events except the college bound experience to get “evaluated”. Sorry you spent 500 bucks on the college bound experience. A lot of us didn’t and are still going.

The fact you called it a “Wink” event makes it seem that you are affiliated with them or you are Mike himself. Don’t worry Mike, you will still make a ton of money.

92 Girls selected for LILJ Games.
Of these girls, approximately 75 were publicly named as either being part of the Excelsior Games tryouts or the College Experience on the LILJ instagram page (LILJ events) OR they are part of a team that played in the Fall Queen of Long Island (another LILJ event). Girls were not double counted.

There are additional girls that were chosen that participated in the Players Open and the High School Winter League.

If your daughter has never participated in a LILJ covered event and she has been chosen for the LILJ games she has beaten the odds.
If "many of her teammates that got selected never went to an LILJ event" the math and facts do not support that.

I have no fight in this. But it’s so obvious you are affiliated with this event. There no way you would have that info unless you were on the inside. You also never responded to the boys side where there are almost no youth boys events

“Beaten the odds” is the best line ever. Who knew the All Long Island Ganes was like the Hunger Games. I wonder if “Wink” will come out and say “May the odds forever be in your favor”.

This is dishonest.
Every one of the girls selected for LILJ games is on a team that participated in a LILJ affiliated event within the past year and a half. And let me remind you, the initial comment is that “many of her teammates that got selected never went to a LILJ event…ever.” Well, here are the receipts.

Queen of Long Island is a LILJ event. It’s one of the events posted on the LILJ site that another poster directed you all to as a list of places “to be seen and considered” for the LILJ games. The LILJ games selections all come from: YJ, Igloo, Empire, Tradition, 91, Jesters, Legacy, and Top Guns and every one of them registered and attended Queen of the island in 2023. Empire attended the season prior.
This alone negates every word you’ve said in your venom-spitting session.

However, as an earlier post pointed out, there is a large percentage of girls identified on instagram as having been present in independent LILJ/Wink events. “A lot of us didn’t” attend LILJ events is simply statistically untrue. In fact, it’s 100% the opposite.

Is Winkoff the only one that can visit the instagram page and count girls from each program? Wouldn’t someone who’s affiliated have been more likely to respond about the boys’ side? There’s a stretch in logic and truth in the LiLJ animonsity comments.

Pay up for the instagram post while wink laughs his way to the bank.

I have one question. Top guns 2029 black is ranked 8th in the country. They participated in the queen of the island last year. Why weren’t any of them selected for the all Long Island ganes last year or this year ?

There are seven Top Guns selected for the All Long Island Games this year.

Reading comprehension isn’t your strong point. I said last year.

And then you put the word "or" followed by the words "this year"

To be fair you said last year or this year

To be even more fair, there were Top Guns in the 2023 LILJ Games as well.
LILJ Instagram page post from 6/16/23 shows the complete roster. Wondering if the Top Guns OP can find a way to move the goalposts further on whatever narrative he's trying to prove.

Ah yes, the American Select "hazel" team. This is the guy you should be listening to. Fictitious percentages, fictitious team names.

For those of you that have been adamant about not having your child participate in showcases/events/select teams/LILJ events/top ten teams until recruiting year, what is your actual plan?

You've detailed a system of deep rooted favoritism, nepotism, and "money grabs." But honestly, what's your actual plan? In recruiting year, your kid is going to just enter the scene for the first time and be considered a top recruit despite there already being girls firmly planted in that system?

I'll agree that good money is spent on training, but the people who are sending their kids to all of these other things- they're also training. I can't really see the disadvantage of keeping a loose affiliation those that you are calling "money grabbers." If you spent no money on anyone who is trying to profit off of your child's lacrosse- your child would be playing no lacrosse.

Since this seems a somewhat normal response I will respond based on my experiences.

I found Coach Renee Lopez Book and Facebook group on college recruiting extremely helpful. I’m not her and don’t profit from the purchase of her book. This is what helped my daughter get recruited mid-level D 1 school

She advises to start lightly in 9th grade. She recommends picking 5-8 schools, get film and start sending out emails. She feels anything before that is a waste of time because coaches are not looking at 7th and 8th grade girls. They aren’t looking at 9th graders either but it’s to kind of get your feet wet They want to fill their recruiting classes so they are looking at 10th and 11th graders. 10th and 11th is really where you need to work your @ChillLaxin if with constant emails etc.

She recommends writing hand written notes to thank coaches for their time. She goes over what a generic prospect day invite is and which one is where a coach is interested. She says coaches don’t care what club you pay for. They just care how you look on films and watching you live (in 10th or 11th).

In the end I would never criticize how people spend their money. But if if you think playing in the all Long Island games in 6th or 7th grade will help “build your resume” it’s just not true. College coaches will not care that your were selected to the all Long Island games in 7th grade.

If you wanted to argue these things matter before the rule changes (kids could commit in 7th and 8th) then I would say you have a fair point. I had my oldest son do some of these “showcases” in 7th and 8th grade. Once he started the recruiting process I realized it was a waste of money for recruiting purposes

I would argue that being an early favorite has a lot of merit, especially when part of a high performing team. When Notre Dame calls Carol Rose and says “Do you have a good attack you can send my way” or when Hofstra is pulling from Top Guns- your affiliation will indeed matter. The advent of social media adds one part “publicity” to this recipe. Enter Wink.

I don’t think the guy who said 7th grade work counts as resume bullets meant that colleges care about your participation in 7th grade as much as he meant that these are stepping stones for future accolades.

I agree with some of these points but disagree with others. If you are on a top team it’s because you are a great player. And yes if you are on the top yellow jacket team you will get a ton more exposure to great events than say lax on elite.

However, all the social media exposure in the world(wink) will not have any bearing on whether a college coach makes you an offer. If you are a highly touted recruit it’s because you are a great player. Not because wink chose you for the all Long Island games. Top tier teams and mid level teams aren’t looking at the LILJ instagram. And also keep in mind the college coaches at these events for younger grades are being paid to be there. The assistants salary at even top schools can range in the 60-80k range They attend these events to supplement their income. Not so they can get a look at 8th graders.

Bottom line is that a college coach strictly makes a decision based on film, watching you live, and their needs for your recruiting class. That’s it