BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2017 Fall 2014/Summer 2015

Akadmix put da brakes on... in a low revenue sport at the Varsity College level.

They wouldn't, and that is the point. Size and athletic ability challenged prep kids are safe for now.

Explain Who's going to pay all these future 8th grade SEC football turned lacrosse players to fly around the country to play travel club, prospect camps,showcases, etc... Etc...
Oh, and btw, pay for 50-75% of a $60,000 college tuition ??

That is complete crap. My son is taking AP courses as an underclassman, and AP course classrooms at my son's school is not stocked with lacrosse repeaters. Those kids are doing geometry as seniors after doing Algebra 1 twice. Most often lacrosse players repeat classes when they repeat grades to make obtaining higher GPA easier.

Reclassifying is repeating a grade. Because you are doing it over again. You could take a math lesson from my 10th grader, and if you ask nice he'll help tutor your 19 year old senior in the course he took last year. Step away from the keyboard and just crawl away. And congrats on junior lax bro's commit to High Point or the like. [/quote]

Yes - Some might "repeat" classes if they screwed up the first time. But the reclassified kids who do not repeat the classes are the ones that did well in the first place and would only see marginal benefit to "repeating" the same classes again. How do you think an admissions officer would evaluate the transcripts of two different schools with the same courses? I don't think he/she would completely disregard the worse transcript and would probably not put a lot of weight behind the "repeated" transcript because any idiot would do better the second time around and they are well aware of that. The whole idea of "prep school" is just that - prep them for college. Repeating the same classes as what was already taken at a prior school does not "prep" any kid better for college. The reclassifiers who don't repeat are being "preped" with APs in their Junior and Senior year as well as another year in the weight room and on the field for an all around easier transition. Not to mention the "away experience" of being away from mommy and daddy and having to develop independent study and living habits at a boarding school makes that part of the transition to college a lay up that many public school kids struggle with.

Who will come up with the term that defines the player that does NOT require "reclassification"??

How about...
"TEC", short for...
"True early commit" ??

What? Read the post again.

One statement: Miles Jones from Duke.

... I'll bet almost anything - that the parents can justify giving their kids an occasional "energy drink" before games...

"It's legal"... "Everyone does it"... "Any little edge you can get"...
Please, It's anonymous- so who is willing to admit it??

Dude, that was the original poster's point...football prospects would never leave for football for the reasons you wrote and there are no full scholarships or professional careers in lacrosse. Those real athletes stay away.

Reclassification - was designed for the underdeveloped child that barely missed the cut off date - so her or she does NOT have sit out for safety concerns...

Simple- that's it!!

Reclassification was NEVER intended to provide a venue for a midyear birthday player to leverage an extra year of maturity to dominate younger, smaller boys kids in competitive events for D1 aspirations.

From a Coach's prospective - I will discount a Reclassified player's performance when evaluating and projecting talent levels...
Does that make sense??

Yes - Some might "repeat" classes if they screwed up the first time. But the reclassified kids who do not repeat the classes are the ones that did well in the first place and would only see marginal benefit to "repeating" the same classes again. How do you think an admissions officer would evaluate the transcripts of two different schools with the same courses? I don't think he/she would completely disregard the worse transcript and would probably not put a lot of weight behind the "repeated" transcript because any idiot would do better the second time around and they are well aware of that. The whole idea of "prep school" is just that - prep them for college. Repeating the same classes as what was already taken at a prior school does not "prep" any kid better for college. The reclassifiers who don't repeat are being "preped" with APs in their Junior and Senior year as well as another year in the weight room and on the field for an all around easier transition. Not to mention the "away experience" of being away from mommy and daddy and having to develop independent study and living habits at a boarding school makes that part of the transition to college a lay up that many public school kids struggle with. [/quote]

I read this as you trying very hard to rationalize that junior is not a repeat a grader but a "reclassifier" but a lot of what you write out makes no sense whatsoever. If a kid is academically sound, and coach wants him but there is an agreement to do a PG year (post grad year, NOT a repeat a grade in 8th or 9th year) that is a completely different thing than going 8th or 9th grade twice to hit well on early recruiting.

All reclassifiers repeat. There is no such thing as reclassifying without doing a grade twice, and that is repeating a grade. You go on that these kids are not REALLY reclassifying or repeating so much as they are being "prepped". That is hysterical on two levels.

First, a PG is a kid who GRADUATED from high school and does an additional post graduate year at a boarding school. Yes, these are finishing school type arrangements for kids who need to pull their grades or scores up in order to admissions qualify at the schools who recruited them. Hockey players have been doing that for decades at the New England boarding schools.

Second, your local public or day private schools are not boarding schools. Kids in Maryland that go to a public school for 8th or 9th and then repeat that grade at an MIAA or IAC school are not being "prepped" as boarding students. They're just from families willing to write checks to keep their kid in the recruiting cycle longer when it doesn't appear they are good enough to be recruited as real 8th and 9th graders.

If there is such a thing as an academically gifted lacrosse player who is basically restraining to do a grade level over, but in your words is someone who is academically all the same in terms of progression and is doing AP courses as a junior or senior (cue the laughter) and is as you wrote basically a college freshman in the final year of high school...well, why don't those kids enroll at UNC, Michigan, etc. and redshirt a year in college instead of hiding in 8th or 9th grade a second time to audition better as lacrosse players?

That is the question, and when we take away those crutches the answer isn't "well, he ISN'T REALLY REPEATING and he SORT OF ALSO ISN'T REALLY RECLASSIFYING the way others are now putting it, but he is really PREPPING and taking all sorts of college credits in 12th grade and hitting the weights for one more year", it is that you made a family decision to make your son a social and emotional invalid to repeat a grade he didn't need to for academic or social reasons so he can show better as a lacrosse player. Just admit it and stop wasting your own time...at this rate your kid will only learn how to rationalize away anything and everything that is hard in life with excuses like you are doing for him.

Miles Jones was told to do a PG year to qualify for admissions at Duke. It was not a lacrosse decision for lacrosse advantage. He was being recruited by Duke as a natural sophomore. His game didn't need the help, his profile as a student did. Nice try.

I don't understand the idea of doing a PG year to get your grades up. What's the guarantee that will make a difference? First, one more year is one out of 5 high school years. Even if the kid pulled a 3.5 in his PG year, why would that wash away the 2.3 he pulled in his first 4 years? Secondly, there is no guarantee that the kid will do well academically in their PG year - he might find it very hard and pull another 2.3. Then what? Bottom line - I think the PG year to get your grades up is a sham. The real reason for the PG year is for the colleges to put the kid in a holding pattern on someone else's dime rather than redshirt him or carry him on the roster waiting for a senior ahead of him to graduate. Bam.

Yup, Miles Jones is doing it BIG at the all important lax program of the prestigious DUKE BLUE DEVILS! And this time next year he'll being doing shooting lessons for 9 year olds on Long Island for $75 per session. Take a peek at all the other big time lax stars whom just left college, these kids don't have real jobs from the big lacrosse schools? I don't get it.

Schools such as Duke begin monitoring class loads of their early commits. They want the them taking a full legitimate class load and taking AP classes whenever possible. I know of one early commit who had to submit his Junior and Senior class schedules to the college for approval. They came back and told him to increase the class load and add some AP classes. Another commit felt that since he had the verbal and the grades to get accepted, he would rather take a light load his Senior year. The result - the school felt his academic commitment and accomplishments was not sufficient and asked him to PG.

I don't understand the idea of doing a PG year to get your grades up. What's the guarantee that will make a difference? First, one more year is one out of 5 high school years. Even if the kid pulled a 3.5 in his PG year, why would that wash away the 2.3 he pulled in his first 4 years? Secondly, there is no guarantee that the kid will do well academically in their PG year - he might find it very hard and pull another 2.3. Then what? Bottom line - I think the PG year to get your grades up is a sham. The real reason for the PG year is for the colleges to put the kid in a holding pattern on someone else's dime rather than redshirt him or carry him on the roster waiting for a senior ahead of him to graduate. Bam. [/quote]

I went to boarding school and you could not be more wrong in terms of the PG year. It is for sports ringers who didn't meet the academic standards at schools, usually Canadian kids who are slotted to go to Cornell or another Ivy. The unwritten rule is go to a NE prep school as a boarder for a year, and the admissions office happy. If they flunk out it does not work out, but those PGs usually pull through and get to their destinations after a finishing year. Maybe it is a roster spot parking lot for some lacrosse players, but to be honest those kids should just go to the college and redshirt as a practice player for a year. The PG boarding year is not what you noted in most sports instances...it is purely for knuckleheads who need to get academics pulled up.

Are you a coach? Those with whom I've had conversations could care less how the kid arrived at their talent relative to their school grade.

Really?? do not kid yourself.
Coaches are acutely aware of the pitfalls of committing players during adolescent development...
Far from a science, but judging a player's performance playing down (reclassification) is ALWAYS a major factor when trying to predict projecting how a player will perform in 4 years competing against equally physically matured men.
...you will soon find out, 9th and 10th grade studs... Too often Disappear when they can't rely on their physical dominance as seniors

You might want to spread the word to your fellow coaches since more than half the early recruits were holdbacks, reclasses or PG kids. Specifically 1-2 years older than the average age for a said class. Percentage might be even higher for current 2018 commits.

...or not.
I guess that's why the worst early commit offenders (Carolina, and Hopkins)...
Are scratching their heads wondering why they are watching the
Albany's, Denver's, Lehigh's, Loyola's of the world, on TV every year at the Final Four...

Yup, Miles Jones is doing it BIG at the all important lax program of the prestigious DUKE BLUE DEVILS! And this time next year he'll being doing shooting lessons for 9 year olds on Long Island for $75 per session. Take a peek at all the other big time lax stars whom just left college, these kids don't have real jobs from the big lacrosse schools? I don't get it. [/quote]

I don't mean for this to come off as snarky as it reads, but does anyone know why it is that Duke lacrosse grads -- and Duke is one fine school -- wind up lax bros after college teaching lessons / club slumming? There are a few examples of kids heading to Wall St like Jordan Wolf, but they seem to be in a very small minority. Why does such a great college churn out bozos insofar as lacrosse grads are concerned?

On the other hand UPenn kids and Notre Dame kids seem to not miss and almost unanimously excel after college. (Full disclosure: I have a lot of family connections to both UPenn and ND programs and have helped with recent grads at those schools for job market connections, I have no connections or inside knowledge on Duke whatsoever).

We are basically two years away from UNC, UVa and Hop winning nothing to put early recruiting in a grave. -- IF that happens. Breschi is liked at UNC, but there are boundary conditions to running a program that has all the resources asked for that just can't win. Starsia's deal is up in 2016, and word around Charlottesville is his program needs to both win and run clean of player off the field issues this year, or he will basically be forced into retirement after 2016 season. Petro is a legend at Hop, but again it goes without saying that is the only sport Hop cares about and the bottom line is another year or two of middle pack performance and no real moves in NCAA tournament and just maybe even Petro is not safe. For now there is no evidence that early recruiting has a negative effect on the performance of these programs, but we are heading into the throat of the "show me" years right now I am guessing.

Good post. But I do think your wrong about 1 - thing... There is NO Lack of evidence.
It's an arms race, heading for disaster - but the shame of it is the early committed kids will be collateral damage hit the hardest.

Notice schools stock piling on early Offensive Commitments??

Do the math... If a program hands out 6 verbals for 2017 Attackmen, the program effectively locked all 6 players from the recruiting market...
3 years from now, they will be happy with keeping their top 3 players, then drop conveniently drop 3 for grades, SAT scores, or whatever...
The poor kid is now a senior, and can't find a suitable college program, because its now too LATE... So don't worry about The Petro's - start worrying about Long Term fit for your kid... Which, btw NOONE KNOWS at 14-15...

Sounds like ACC higher level math. Did you work that out all by yourself?
If you couldn't tell your kid was right for a program by 10th grade academically; then the fault is yours for letting him languish until he is a senior with false hopes of recovering in class enought to qualify. Don't put him in that position if he is not capable of performing in the class as well as the field

Haha, that's funny. I guess your SD on is still hoping to commit? Don't get your hopes up. Schools font drop comitted kids. It's the other way around!

I don't mean for this to come off as snarky as it reads, but does anyone know why it is that Duke lacrosse grads -- and Duke is one fine school -- wind up lax bros after college teaching lessons / club slumming? There are a few examples of kids heading to Wall St like Jordan Wolf, but they seem to be in a very small minority. Why does such a great college churn out bozos insofar as lacrosse grads are concerned?

On the other hand UPenn kids and Notre Dame kids seem to not miss and almost unanimously excel after college. (Full disclosure: I have a lot of family connections to both UPenn and ND programs and have helped with recent grads at those schools for job market connections, I have no connections or inside knowledge on Duke whatsoever).

Perhaps because UPENN and Notre Dame have business schools and Duke does not.

Perhaps because UPENN and Notre Dame have business schools and Duke does not. [/quote]

Duke has the Fuqua School of Business which is well regarded. A BA from Penn, ND and Duke should be close. Why are they not close for jobs out of school for the lacrosse kids?

The coaches will keep the best lacrosse players and use grades or SATs as excuses to cut the less desirable recruits. I know a few kids headed to touh schools who really are not cut out for the curriculum, they are beasts on the field though.

Let me help a little....my youngest graduated Duke. The soccer team was very interested in her. I said no way will play soccer at Duke. Why? She would have had practice at 6am and again in the afternoon, plus travel during the season, and more practice and scrimmage games throughout the year. After all, the coach has to justify his annual salary.

I would also point out that the course load was intense and if she played a sport she would have to take lighter subjects.

Now, if your child has the grades to make Duke or any other high end school it should all academics. At Duke, if you are playing basketball then I say go for it, but another sport I would not. basketball at Duke may lead to a very profitable NBA contract. What lucrative contract do you see for lacrosse or soccer? I didn't see any.

Younger daughter graduated and then went to law school. College really isn't over after 4 years...think graduate school. Start saving because if you have a high academic achiever it will be expensive, but there are many grants and scholarships available for academics at all these high end Top 20 schools, and the alumni networking is second to none.

Larry,

So your prospective is that if the student athlete has no professional athletic future, don't play sports in college??
Interesting, but thanks for sharing...

ha! You must be the proud dad of the future 4 year 1st Team All American at Hopkins... Can you donate your DNA to science research

Yes and no. What you need to understand is that college is not high school. Your "baby" is now a baby adult, and that adult needs to prepare for a very tough world. Playing sports that will not produce a lucrative contract makes no sense to me. Even with basketball and football if you're not an exceptional player you have to move on.

Now, with football and basketball, IMO is worth the gamble. I don't see it with other sports. This is magnified when you mention schools at the level of Duke, and even much further down the top 100 schools. Time is too precious when at college...social life takes up a lot time and school work amounts to a 33 hour day!

I can only base what I say on my experience with two daughters. One is an attorney at aa prestigious securities firm on Wall St., and my other daughter, a graduate of Northwestern University leads R&D at a global nuclear company. At 31 she just received her Masters in Nuclear Engineering from UNC. I don't believe the girls could have done that, and and honor a total commitment to the team. It was not a gamble we didn't want to take, and no, my kids do not take after me

My 2 cents.

Sure Larry, weighing the academic course load, and some majors such as nuclear physics and engineering may prohibit D-1 sports participation... But for the most part, playing sports for most really enhances the overall college experience;
Structure to your day, lasting bonds with teammates, learn proper preparation for competition, team concepts, physical outlet, and, don't forget... learning how to deal with D-bag coaches.

Making lasting bonds with teammates is not important. The student will make life long friends at college without playing on team. I have no idea what you are sending your child to college for. It is your money and your child. My decisions and direction paid off better than expected here at Casa Miller.

I'm out of this conversation.

Spunds like a parent that read about the college lacrosse
Experience and never lived it.

With you on this....the statement preceding yours is almost beyond the ability to even address.

FWIW; once my committed player is matriculated in the school of his choice; I could not care less if he ever steps on the field to play. He understands that besides his high gpa, lax provided the key to the door that would otherwise be closed to thousands with equally high grades and test scores.

Most will not see the bigger picture. Even when it is right in front of their faces. Ego, in all of its grand manifestation, will be the ultimate etiology of the myopic position of the masses.

"etiology of the myopic position"

since I played lacrosse in college I have no idea what this means. quite certain my frat boys friends who spent their afternoons playing foosball and video games wouldn't either. I would have been with them had I not had something more purposeful to attend. I've had 2 jobs over the years that were directly attributable to lacrosse connections -- specifically that all important 1st one. Lacrosse connections have helped in various business deals. Today show did a segment this morning on MIT football team. starting QB studying to be rocket scientist and back-up has played violin at Carnegie Hall. So maybe you can be a serious student and athlete. Also I met my beautiful wife because she was on the woman's team. College sports are not for everyone but those of us with real passion for our sport have no regrets.

Great post! This is exactly where my son falls. He is a 2017 and he is still 14 years old until the end of this month. All of you folks can bury your head in the sand all you want but there are 17 year old 2017's running around out there right now. My son was recruited by a highly regarded prep school this past summer. It wasnt even a question whether or not he was going to repeat the grade, it was understood. His club coach (who was a D1 college coach) recommended it and in no uncertain terms told me that D1 coaches "love" reclassified kids and encourage reclassifying whenever possible. So my son will be attending this prep school next fall and repeating the grade and becoming a 2018. I dont consider this cheating in any shape or form. IMO I am just correcting a mistake I made by sending him to kindergarten instead of holding him back like most parents do. My son is a very good 2017, but because of his size and physical maturity, he is definitely behind the 8 ball when it comes to recruiting. He is playing with a 2018 club team and he is still one of the younger kids on the team, most of them are already 15. So to all of you throwing the "cheating" word around, every case is different. More importantly, do a little research and look at D1 rosters and look at the birthdays and look at the schools they come from. An extremely large majority of D1 kids are reclassified and come from Prep schools. Its just reality and its here to stay. In my sons case I believe its going to help him get into a much better college than he would have been able to get into and thats the goal here isnt it?

Kudos my friend. To add to your post I would say that any of us that have played a sport at the collegiate level would tell you that they would trade the experience for anything in the world, and the bonds you make during that time last forever. Every case is different and every parent and child must find their own way, but to discount the benefits of playing a college sport is just silly.

Boys Latin/Crabs Attackman that just committed to Syracuse "reclassified" to a 2018 this year. He was already an older 2017 and a very good player. Guess it worked out for him