BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2021 Fall 2013/Summer 2014

False. There Are zero fifth graders on the 4th grade igloo team. Igloo 2022 is all fourth graders an all u-10, period.

I know that 2021 kids were offered spots on the 2022 team. I don't know if they accepted.

You don't even make sense.. You state that you know for a fact that 5th graders are moved down to 4th grade igloo, then you say they are offered spots but you don't know if they accept them?? You don't know and you don't even understand the contoversy which is that if 5th grade igloo has 6th graders on their team it is NOT within the rules to play in a 2021 or 5th grade tournament.

No....maybe nothing will be done but let's just state facts. That is that there are other organizations that are LEGITIMATE 5th grade 2021 teams that will challenge and BEAT igloo. Namely 91 and Team LI 2021 teams. They are ALL 5th graders. If Igloo has 6th graders on the 2021 team, how can they call themselves 2021 when kids are graduating in 2020. Period...

This is the issue with these tournaments, either U based as USL is or grade/graduating year based.
So under USL rules, the U date is August 31st. So it is possible to have a 6th grader and still be a USL U11 qualified player. The school cut off date is Nov 15th or so, so if the child is born between Sept. 1st and the school cut off date they are in the grade above and still U11.
That being said, most LI tournaments are run using grade/graduating year as the criteria. So we run into the same issue with this system because if a parent holds a child back, then they are in the appropriate graduating class but not of proper age potentially.
One system needs to be engaged and all tournaments comply with that system so all teams can be compliant.

As cage quoted in the past. USL likes the U based designation because because other parts of the country would not be able to put competitive teams together using grade based designation. You will find grad year tournaments in the hotbed areas, and u based in the non-hotbed areas. This is the reason team LI has always entered 2nd tier lacrosse tournaments outside of NY. They would never go into a grade based tournament until recently with maybe one or two teams. You are on long island(Team LI), there is no need for any program to go u based unless you are going to florida for the U-15 nationals. Get a grip people and organizations. If you all say this is ok, then leave the boys from crush alone. They have late birthdays and are in the 6th grade. Not a 91 parent but just sick of reading all this nonsense.. Put together U15,13,9,12,10,8 teams if you are in Utah, not LI. By doing so it just states that you know you can't compete so you cop out using USL rules.

No....maybe nothing will be done but let's just state facts. That is that there are other organizations that are LEGITIMATE 5th grade 2021 teams that will challenge and BEAT igloo. Namely 91 and Team LI 2021 teams. They are ALL 5th graders. If Igloo has 6th graders on the 2021 team, how can they call themselves 2021 when kids are graduating in 2020. Period...

Without the team fielding its 6th Graders (If they have them?) Do you think there is another 2021 team that even comes close?

I support all Lacrosse...I am asking the question so I was expecting a simple answer...

So let me ask another question...Can this 2021 Team "straight up" beat the (2) other programs that you mentioned? Are they both 2020?

I am not familiar with the others because I am a NJ parent and saw this Igloo team this past weekend so curious as to how they fair against the better LI teams.

Fill me in.....

Some of Team Igloo 2021 wins this year:

Beat Team 91 Orange: 10-3 for Halloween Havoc Championship
Beat Legacy 10-0
Beat Outlaws 2020 10-3 for Fall Finale Championship

So one might think outlaws and 91 and legacy are relatively close...

So one might think outlaws and 91 and legacy are relatively close...

h7cc5u

It does not work that way. Just because scores are similar does not mean the 3 teams that lost are close. Also if a team got shut out like legacy did you can't say they are close to teams that could score 3 times.

Been around long enough to know that yes it does generally work out that way. The teams are of the same caliber. Of course on any given day any team can do anything, but what I failed to see was the 2020 in front of the Outlaws.

but I would say that if outlaws and legacy played it may be a 3-0 or 5-1 game. Any game within 4 goals is a game that should be played regardless if you won or lost - you are the same caliber.

I have no problem what igloo does because it is within the rules. Parents that have 6th graders born after 8/31/02 are asked to have their kid play for Igloo 5th grade team provided they can make it. Igloo does the same thing with the 4th grade team. Kids that tried out for the 5th grade team that were born after 8/31/03 are moved down to the fourth grade team if they can't make the 5th grade team. This why at tryouts igloo asks for birth certificates. I know for a fact that this is the practice of Igloo. I don't know how many older kids are on either team but I do know spots are available to them.

You may be fine with it but it's breaking the rules. If the were a U11 team the would be OK. If you represent yourself as a 5th grade team it's not OK. Once you have one player in 6th, you should be in a 6th bracket.

I am not an Igloo parent but know the team well. If they have any 6th graders (which they may not) it can't be more than one or two. I may be wrong on that and we may never get an answer. I think they are the best Long Island 2021 team even if you take the top three players off the roster. Remember Long Island lax has the best players spread on so many teams. If Long Island had only 5 to ten teams then all the teams would be elite and on Igloo's curent level. Don't confuse Igloo being the best TEAM with having the 20 best players on Long Island. They don't have all the best players. They are just very deep in talent and have played together for a very long time. There are Kids that are on 2021 "B" teams that would be top players on Igloo. I hope this answer helps you.

There are a few teams who will compete, if not trade victories with 2021 Igloo this year. Team LI 2021 is as good as any out there. 91 Orange very good as well. I have seen all these teams play at different tournaments and am sometimes amazed at the level of these teams. Very disciplined, skilled and team oriented. Should be a good year.

Where is team Long Island? Evryone says that they are a good team.
Who have they beaten to say this? I have been to a number of tournaments this fall and still have not see this supposedly great team.

Team Long Island is out east. They are a very inexpensive program and I am not sure if the play in the Fall. They will have two to three teams per year. The top 2021 team is either second or third best (at 91 level) and the other teams in that program are not very good.

Dear Parents, coaches, and directors of that read this thread; the fundamental issue is age or grade based, stop talking about a specific team or teams as it only takes objectivity out of the discussion. On long island there has been a growing number of players who are being "red shirted" or "reclassified" as they call it at younger ages to hide the fact that they are being left back for athletic reasons, some for academic reasons. The point is there are more opportunities for safety issues with players playing on grade then by age. Hence US lacrosse about 6 years ago stepped in and followed suit with almost every major youth sports organization in the country to have lacrosse be played on a age level instead of grade based. This would ensure that all the players where the same age, plus make sure that there was no physical advantage on one team that could and most likely create a safety issue.

Now when we talk about Team Long Island or Team Igloo, or Team 91, or any club team you must look at what that club does to ensure the safety of its players, and the spirit of which youth lacrosse is played.

Until the boys hit manhood my personal opinion is that age based is a much better approach then grade. There are several players on all these teams who have been left back for one reason or another; creating an advantage that could lead to someone getting extremely injured. So teams that are age based can let the other coaches and other programs know that there will be no physical advantage. Which depending on which side of the fence you are on this issue is objectively a better approach.

Now there are qualifying events in Long Island that are grade based but highlight the fact that the tournament is for a age based qualifier. Teams that adhere to the age based format will be allowed to compete, the teams that adhere to a grade based format will be forced to leave some of their players off their rosters in order to compete. So all in all; age is the best way to make sure all teams are playing in a safe, competitive environment and in accordance to the national youth rules.

The 2021 team is a very good team....I saw them play last year. They beat us thoroughly and I saw them beat 91 orange 2x in 2 days in Stony Brook. They will definitely compete on the elite level against Igloo and others. Don't kid yourself.

That 2021 TLI team has great depth....Believe me. I am sure they have also improved the past few months. No one player made that team great. They rotate players seamlessly at all positions.

There are a lot of 2021 teams in the Fall Brawl Turkey Shootout. I noticed that 91 has 4 teams in that bracket, any thoughts about to how that bracket will play out?