BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2031 4th Grade Summer 2023

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A few nice shiny Red Helmets at Candlewood today!!!

At all grade groups.

Not any stealth kids, seems like a lot of different helmets at each tryouts, should be interesting!

They are the best Helmets., Igloo actually went to Same helmet after rebels, just in that so NICE baby Blue.

A few ? I thought there was going to be a mass exodus to the more established clubs like 91 or express ? Didn’t happen last year and didn’t happen this year. Until 91 puts out a good product at this age group, no one good is going there.

Several Rebels players at Igloo tryouts even a couple of Stealth players too. Why don't they just get smart and move stealth to Suffolk for their east club?

Rebels team is Centrally located, Parents travel the most 20-25 Minutes, to be on the very best(by far, some nice new editions). Let the battle for 2nd place begin.

Rebels and Igloo parents/directors can keep pounding their chests about how great they are now. But after being at the NLF this past weekend, it is clear nobody is recruiting players from either of those clubs. There are maybe 2-3 players from each of those teams that could possibly make Express or 91 over the next 2 years. Neither of those clubs has qualified for the WS in recent years and thats not gonna change in the coming years. The gap will close fast, and parents of better players will move to greener pastures. Enjoy the ride, it will be over shortly.

Bottom kids will move from clubs. Already saw a bunch leave Igloo to goto Express mid season.

You have to stop living in the PAST. NOBODYS going to 91, Maybe a few to Express. Igloo and Rebels are the Future. You all Said same thing 2 years ago. Igloo and rebels have only got better. 91 is a Dinosaur.

Didn’t look like the past this weekend at Lehigh.

No one can deny how good they are at the older age group. It’s just right now they are really bad at this age group. I heard their tryouts didn’t have a lot of kids from other program or a ton of talent at there. They better start recruiting fast.

91 will be top team in 3 years

91 will be lucky to have a team in 3 years

Hope tryouts went well for all your Long Island Teams. Not gonna matter much because the DMV is untouchable. ML, Hawks, NL are gonna dominate your under age LI as..es!

Express tryouts counted about 14 total from other clubs. 6 Rebels 3 Igloo, 1 turtle, 1 91, the rest randoms.

"the DMV"...ooooohhhhhh - grow up!

Time will tell. I’ve been around club lacrosse for years. I was a coach on one of the big clubs for a bunch of years before my kids were born. Before 91 and Express ruled there were other clubs. LI usually had 4 good teams 2 great and 2 that could comply with the best of them. The landscape changes every decade. I think 91 will be around I think they care more about the HS teams They seem to care more about recruiting than fielding dominant teams at the younger ages now. They are very active around 8th or 9th grade. Offering kids reduced or free tuition to play. I believe their philosophy is as long as we keep getting kids recruited we will be fine. So parents who have a kid that doesn’t get much play time. Gets on the field but not a too player that is on igloo, rebels or any other club, will try and move their kid to 91 around 7 th grade in hopes that the kid gets more play time. Their thinking will be if he is there at that age they will take care of him. But 91 will go after the top players from other clubs offer free tuition. The kid that moved in 7th grade will be left behind while he pays full tuition People will keep going to them with the hopes of landing a partial college scholarship

What do you mean partial? Full athletic scholarships don’t exist in the lacrosse world. And if you’re worried about that in 4th grade you’re a complete clown.

1) Exactly Partial ( Meaning part of ) never said full scholarship.

2) Never said I or anyone was thinking about college in 4th grade. I said middle school. That is exactly when you should be thinking about it. that's when you need to determine if your child is going to play at the next level. 8th grade summer going into 9th is a big year in starting to build your film 9th grade summer going into 10th is recruiting ( if you are top tier player)

3) I was giving my opinion on what I believe is 1 particular clubs thinking. They will always have 2 teams they will be making money. I believe (IMHO) that their focus is Recruiting. they care abut they younger teams but not nearly as much as the older teams.

Good response that makes sense to me. For 2) though, I've heard repeatedly from coaches (club, hs, college) that for recruiting nothing matters until 9th grade HS season, and summer after 10th grade is when it really matters. Spent all summer at elite/AA games with my 2027 and never saw a single college coach so doubt they are interested in film from those games either.

This is for the most part, correct. For high d1 summer after sophomore year and spring of sophomore year are most important. Though freshman spring and summer are important to get film and generate that “buzz”. No one cares before high school unless you are trying to get on a top 20 club

8th grade summer going into 9th i think you need to be on the right team for you. meaning are you getting reps do you believe the team will be in the right showcases in the following years. Are you happy with the team and do you believe that this team and/or organization will help with recruiting The following year 9th grade going into 10th is extremely important I agree with 10th grade going into 11th is when it all happens. I believe you need to set yourself up for that
Fortunately this group has a lot of time before then

All good points. I disagree with couple of them. 91 usually has very good youth teams. Pretty much all of their teams at every age are very good…..except 2031. This grad year is weird because the top 2 teams are igloo and rebels. The top teams for 91 and express are a big dropoff. Express historically doesn’t give a [Censored] about it’s youth teams. I think that’s the main reason no one has really jumped ship yet.

I think if there will be a lot of movement to 91 and express it will be after the World Series year(8th grade ) After the WS hoopla some kids may move to those clubs for the promise of better recruiting options. I would be wary of 91 for one reason. If there 31 team continues to not be competitive, they will just bring in studs from far away (FL, NC etc ). These kids just show up to tournaments and play a lot.

Full Scholarships definitely exist, usually not first year. If a kids difference maker. With portal, have to keep kid/parents happy. Sometimes it’s half academic, grants, etc. I had 5 kids play college sports. 2 got full rides after freshman year. Those were both Lax. Most do not get, but they are out there. Saved over 400k in tuition because of sports.

Igloo is still top 2 after not winning a single game at Hershey? Lost to NJ Express and both DMV teams. That’s the best that strong island has?

Yeah sure buddy.

Any updated rankins

New "Rankins"

Hoco Teams untouchable

1 - ML: Nobody can match this team, the best team by a wide margin
2 - NL
3 - Hawks

Second Tier

4 - 2 Way
5 - Sweetlax
6 - Igloo
7 - Crabs - merged with WPG
8 - Rebels
9 - BBL
10 - Eclipse

Third tier

11 - S2S
12 - Express East
13- Express LI
14 - Legacy
15 - 91

Got number 1 and 15 right at least

91 tryouts were very lite. Since Rebels Beat Igloo last 3 Times, never lost to sweet Lax. Would move them up to 5. Plus beat 2 way couple weeks ago. still give 2-way nod, as they won other 2 times they played. S 2 S best after Rebels and Igloo. Pretty sure Express East fell apart.

My crack at it from a Mid Atlantic Team that has seen a bunch of the 2031s

Tier 1: Would be great matchups between these 4 teams.
2Way
Madlax
Rebels
Hawks

Rebels has wins over both 2Way and ML, albeit the win over ML was a completely different team than the current version.

Tier 1A: Could or have knocked off Tier 1 squads
Igloo
NL
SweetLax Upstate
Crabs (post Wolfpack merger)
NJ Express

Tier 2:
BBL
Towermen
S2S
Dukes
MadDog West

Can't find anything on Laxachusetts 2031, but they normally produce high quality teams.

91 and Express are in a bad place but based on past history it is doubtful that will last long. The Rebels win against ML is void, need to stop bringing that up as a point of contention. ML/Hawks have separated themselves from the pack. We are all hoping Rebels get invited to the NAL next year as it's time for them to see real lacrosse. Igloo got a good smack in the face in Hershey and at the NAL.

Always a Rebels mom. Most classless lacrosse organization ever.

Rebels = [Censored]

If you’re at Rebels or thinking of joint Rebels, run the opposite direction. If no other team opportunities exist, pick a different sport.

If you think 8th grade is the benchmark year for college you’re clueless. There are kids who dominate in 8th and never see the field again. Slow down there slick.

There are no full athletic scholarships for lacrosse. None.

Read the post. You are right. There are no full scholarships in lacrosse. But their are partial scholarships combined with academic awards that make it so it costs nothing or close to it. These obviously arent the norm but it happens more than you think. That’s why all the coaches preach good grades. If you excel in the classroom you have a good shot at getting a lot academic money combined with the partial lax scholarship

FULL SCHOLARSHIPS EXIST. Not many, but they do.

If all the top players from Wolfpack team went to crabs they could challenge ML.

Wait? Are you all talking about college scholarships AND 10 year old lacrosse?!!?? Yikes.

Yell all you want slick, they don’t exist for anyone. The #2 recruit in the nation a few years ago didn’t get a full ride. It’s a lie, invest in tutors or expect to pay exactly what you would at a state school. That’s the rule.

Full rides 😂😂😂 this is 2023 not 2008!

I agree and disagree with you. Yes there are kids who will drop off and there are kids who will come out of nowhere and be really good after 8th grade. I do believe the majority of the best skilled players in 8th grade remain in the top tier Open inside lacrosse. The 1st article is about rising sophomore and freshman (rising freshman that is 8th grade) I know college coaches are not watching these kids but I agree with the poster from above when they said the following

‘ 8th grade summer going into 9th i think you need to be on the right team for you. meaning are you getting reps do you believe the team will be in the right showcases in the following years. Are you happy with the team and do you believe that this team and/or organization will help with recruiting The following year 9th grade going into 10th is extremely important I agree with 10th grade going into 11th is when it all happens. I believe you need to set yourself up for that
Fortunately this group has a lot of time before then “

Which college coach that you “know” is watching? I’ll wait

I believe it says “ I know college coaches are NOT WATCHING THESE KIDS’

I saw Duke scouts at the Rebels 2031 last tourney

I saw them too but it was a PLL scout with a Duke hat.

Which teams are going to the fall NAL?

All kids that don’t play enough or at all

Igloo picking up alot of B players, were did their top players go? Express?

Igloo hasn’t lost anyone of significance. They are a top team on LI at 2031. Stop the BS. Why would their top kids goto a worse team with bad coaching?

None of Igloo’s Winter Soldiers AA’s team top players have left. The core group has stayed and are loyal to a strong program that cares about their players.

Ha! What a joke… Tony Tantrums doesn’t care about your kid. He cares about his wallet. Outside of his older son, who has he helped get into college? Ask someone on the 23, 24, 25 teams. They’ll give you the answer! Stop fooling yourself. Wake up! 2031 will disband soon enough, but keep telling yourself you have a great team and great coaching! Hahaha!

Top kids stayed, too bad. Should have added top kids. Say Igloo #4-5 next year.

Is this the same Igloo that didn’t win a single game at Hershey? Is LI really that weak at 2031 that they’re a top team?

I am going a lot off topic here but curious on your thoughts - do the best athletes/lacrosse players in the 5th grade mean they will be the best in the 10th? How important is player development at the club matter versus the time and the practice kids do on their own? Or does it not matter at all and that when these kids go through puberty will the differences show between a good athlete and a great one? My son is 10. He just wants to play lacrosse and have fun with his friends but sometimes I feel like club has taken the fun out of it. Why can’t the town leagues play year round and against other town leagues? I get playing against tougher competition but does it really matter in grade school? My kids all play for different clubs and I wonder why I do this. I want them to be part of a team and worry if I don’t start the sport now they won’t make their high school team. Club was created in part for college recruiting so why are 3rd graders doing it? And at the end of the day, it’s the top 1/3 of the roster of the top 50 club / lacrosse high school that gets recruited anyway.

Express not getting Igloo kids . The Igloo program is as strong as ever. Top teams all over! Soldiers added some top kids from other clubs. Wait until Fall to pound your chest!

Fake News. Igloo didn't upgrade at all. They still [Censored]. Rebels, 2way and Hoco will smoke them this year. Wounded Soldiers come next summer.

Rebels director can say what he wants about every other club. Let’s be honest, Rebels wear red for a reason, they are the red headed stepchild of Long Island youth Lacrosse. They will never been seen as a reputable organization…no matter how many times you post.

Let’s call it like it is, this is youth Lacrosse. It’s about the kids and building this great sport - stop ranking 10 year old teams, bragging how good you are. The loudest man in the room is usually the weakest. If your club is that good you don’t have to come on here and tell everyone. No other clubs are selling themselves here, get it! They don’t have to.

We are new to travel lacrosse. My son was one of the stronger players on his club team and then just got cut in tryouts. Can’t get feedback from the coaches too. What do we do now when it seems like all teams have full rosters. We didn’t have him tryout for any other team bc we were confident he would make this club.

Call and email clubs to see if they are having supplemental try outs. There are always a few smaller clubs that are in need of player to fill out rosters.

Sorry to hear this; if your son was on an A team then it will be very hard to crack an existing A team club unless you know someone. If he was on a B team then there area plenty of options in the sea.

Turtles have a supplemental tryout this week. Good club, with a good location, might be worth a look.

Turtles are not a good club, very doubtful they fill a team at this age. They just fill teams with anyone they possibly can

New directors are very motivated. Just need kids

Turtles are extinct. Any good player with them, should find a better team. Only true AA clubs are Rebels and igloo. S2S and maybe Express East A. 91 and rest B at best

Turtles are now being run by kids, it’s a hobby. Not where anyone who wants to have a real lacrosse experience goes.

Rankings 2023/24 Pre Season as per NLF/NAL/US Club/SOS/with

Top Group

Igloo
Rebels
Express East

Middle Tier

S2S
Legacy
Express

Lower Tier

91
Rush
BTB
Turtles

Those ain’t no Rankins

The DMV owns these rankins. Madlax still top, followed by NL and Hawks. Crabs now on the scene with WP dismantle. Igloo/Rebels have no shot. Can't wait for the NAL.

They’re just little boys playing a game, it’s not going to be a real lacrosse experience regardless. Let them have fun and stop

Terrible take

Today’s elites will plateau and most will catch up or surpass them over the next 5 years. Puberty hits HARD, good or bad so thinking a 10 year old is an elite lax player or a subpar one is completely pointless. Everything changes, tons of team movement over the next several years so teams change constantly. If you think club is taking away the fun… I suggest you look for another club. He could also just play PAL and will still likely make the school team in a few years. It should be fun, hard work but still fun. Otherwise why spend the time & money? The kids with a love and passion for the sport will always come out on top. I will say that ANY kid who wants to play in college absolutely can. Between DI, DII, DIII, NAIA, JUCO and club, there is a place for every skill level. Kids have one childhood, make it an enjoyable one! Good luck!

This post is spot on. A good example -- take a look at pretty much any Crabs team over the past 5 years. Only 2-3 players that are on a Crabs 4th grade team will still on the team in 8th grade. The kids with a love and passion will always come out on top.

Boring…. Let’s get back to the topic at hand, who is better Rebels or Igloo? Who makes it to 7th grade without a total dismantle? Can either compete against the DMV?

Rebels will manage to blow it.
Look at their older teams

Aren't they a fairly new club? How many teams will they have this year? They have an east and west? If thier older clubs are bad it must be because they are a new club, by 6-7th grade teams are pretty much set with minimal movement no?

Rebels only got better this off season.

Today’s elites will plateau and most will catch up or surpass them over the next 5 years. Puberty hits HARD, good or bad so thinking a 10 year old is an elite lax player or a subpar one is completely pointless. Everything changes, tons of team movement over the next several years so teams change constantly. If you think club is taking away the fun… I suggest you look for another club. He could also just play PAL and will still likely make the school team in a few years. It should be fun, hard work but still fun. Otherwise why spend the time & money? The kids with a love and passion for the sport will always come out on top. I will say that ANY kid who wants to play in college absolutely can. Between DI, DII, DIII, NAIA, JUCO and club, there is a place for every skill level. Kids have one childhood, make it an enjoyable one! Good luck![/quote]


Couldn’t disagree with this take anymore. Great athletes don’t pop up out of the blue. This isn’t football where puberty/size might make a big difference. The ELITE kids now will absolutely be the top kids 7/8 years from now!

Where are the fall schedules? It's August 10 let's go organizations, I want to plan life lol!!!

Couldn’t disagree with this take anymore. Great athletes don’t pop up out of the blue. This isn’t football where puberty/size might make a big difference. The ELITE kids now will absolutely be the top kids 7/8 years from now![/quote]

You are saying the elite kids in 4th grade are a good predictor for the elite kids as juniors and seniors? Wow. Just wow. I guess your message to the kids is if you aren’t elite by 4th grade but you want to play high level college lacrosse you might as well give up. Good lesson for life. I’m going to go out on a limb and say skill level at the 4th grade level is a poor prognostic indicator of future success. That being said I also don’t agree that todays elites will plateau; some will go on to be very good.

As with most arguments on this site, the truth is firmly in the middle. An elite athlete in the 4th grade will usually still be an elite athlete in HS and beyond. That may or may not translate to the field depending on their commitment and lax IQ. The best PLAYERS in 4th grade frequently aren't the elite athletes though. Watching my older son I've seen many of the top players fade out and move down to lower level teams. Over time everyone develops core skills and pure athleticism drowns out much of the skill differences.

With that said, an elite athlete in 4th grade that is also already a top player, will rarely fade away unless they choose to focus on another sport.

Agree completely

And somehow their older teams are still good and get lots of D1 kids…. And they only started 4 years ago

Rebels team is decent but relies heavily on two kids. Once those two leave for 91 it’s over. Are you guys brothers? Rebels fall short by 7th grade. Not aware of any relevant D1 commits on their older teams.

Rebels added the Top kids from 91, Legacy and express east. So, theory of Rebels leaving is way off. Parents get it. Those clubs are the past. REBELS the future. See you in fall, if you dare.

Fake news. Rebels parent pounding their chest over two brothers who are the whole team. The rest of the kids watch and don’t develop. Model doesn’t work and they will dismantle by next season. Going to be a tough year for the rebels.

Interesting take considering one of the twins was injured all summer. You couldn’t be farther from truth, the team is deep and wears other teams down. Played tournaments this summer missing keep players, and team did not miss a beat.

You are saying the elite kids in 4th grade are a good predictor for the elite kids as juniors and seniors? Wow. Just wow. I guess your message to the kids is if you aren’t elite by 4th grade but you want to play high level college lacrosse you might as well give up. Good lesson for life. I’m going to go out on a limb and say skill level at the 4th grade level is a poor prognostic indicator of future success. That being said I also don’t agree that todays elites will plateau; some will go on to be very good.[/quote]

You are saying the elite kids in 4th grade are a good predictor for the elite kids as juniors and seniors? Wow. Just wow. I guess your message to the kids is if you aren’t elite by 4th grade but you want to play high level college lacrosse you might as well give up. Good lesson for life. I’m going to go out on a limb and say skill level at the 4th grade level is a poor prognostic indicator of future success. That being said I also don’t agree that todays elites will plateau; some will go on to be very good.[/quote]

You are saying the elite kids in 4th grade are a good predictor for the elite kids as juniors and seniors? Wow. Just wow. I guess your message to the kids is if you aren’t elite by 4th grade but you want to play high level college lacrosse you might as well give up. Good lesson for life. I’m going to go out on a limb and say skill level at the 4th grade level is a poor prognostic indicator of future success. That being said I also don’t agree that todays elites will plateau; some will go on to be very good.[/quote]

You are saying the elite kids in 4th grade are a good predictor for the elite kids as juniors and seniors? Wow. Just wow. I guess your message to the kids is if you aren’t elite by 4th grade but you want to play high level college lacrosse you might as well give up. Good lesson for life. I’m going to go out on a limb and say skill level at the 4th grade level is a poor prognostic indicator of future success. That being said I also don’t agree that todays elites will plateau; some will go on to be very good.[/quote]


4th/5th grade is a good indication. Not end all be all but definitely good indicator.

Yes, Rebels have 2 sets of Sibling twins!

You are saying the elite kids in 4th grade are a good predictor for the elite kids as juniors and seniors? Wow. Just wow. I guess your message to the kids is if you aren’t elite by 4th grade but you want to play high level college lacrosse you might as well give up. Good lesson for life. I’m going to go out on a limb and say skill level at the 4th grade level is a poor prognostic indicator of future success. That being said I also don’t agree that todays elites will plateau; some will go on to be very good.[/quote]

You are saying the elite kids in 4th grade are a good predictor for the elite kids as juniors and seniors? Wow. Just wow. I guess your message to the kids is if you aren’t elite by 4th grade but you want to play high level college lacrosse you might as well give up. Good lesson for life. I’m going to go out on a limb and say skill level at the 4th grade level is a poor prognostic indicator of future success. That being said I also don’t agree that todays elites will plateau; some will go on to be very good.[/quote]

You are saying the elite kids in 4th grade are a good predictor for the elite kids as juniors and seniors? Wow. Just wow. I guess your message to the kids is if you aren’t elite by 4th grade but you want to play high level college lacrosse you might as well give up. Good lesson for life. I’m going to go out on a limb and say skill level at the 4th grade level is a poor prognostic indicator of future success. That being said I also don’t agree that todays elites will plateau; some will go on to be very good.[/quote]


4th/5th grade is a good indication. Not end all be all but definitely good indicator.[/quote]

It’s a poor predictor. It s great running head start but some max out because they stopped growing. Puberty tends to be the great equalizer. And then there’s the burnout as plenty so as well. Would I rather be elite in 4th grade? Sure. Bu by no means does it have a good positive predictive value on one’s future.

You obviously haven’t seen them play much. The reason why they are successful is because they have depth. If the twins were the only reason they won it would be easy to put your best defenders on them and beat them. The people that are saying 91 and express are finished are silly. Those programs are top tier and will continue to be. It’s just at this particular age group the Rebels have a great team. That’s it. None of the top players left for other programs this year. Whether that continues remains to be seen. Best of luck to everyone this fall

Where is everyone playing this fall?

Rebels have solid team probably best on Island. Be interesting to see who th ehhh add/lose. Same with Igloo, too team on island, one or two additions can make a big difference. 91 needs to be competitive and start playing better teams. Legacy , I don’t know why they are having such a hard time. Express East has some talent and very good coaching . Express goi g to get better as the kids get older but starting off on ground floor. S2S again has a lot of talent, not quite sure why they haven’t taken a step yet.

anyone playing Fall NAL?

Rebels not invited to NAL. Another season of them skipping meaningful tourneys and bragging about beating igloo and the turtles.

If NAL does not invite rebels, shame on them. They would win it.

They didn’t invite them because they cheat!

That has to be densest post ever, got to have better than that.

Keep trying to spread nonsense