BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Age and Reclassification. The good the bad the ugly!

Question, how does everyone feel about graduate students. A form of holdback that is 100% taking spots from college age kids.

Some of these "graduate" students are 24-25 yrs old

These "graduate" students who are 24 or 25 are few and far between and they are a COVID phenomenon and in my opinion not even an issue. Once the last group of students use up the extra year allowed bc of COVID the transfers will be 22/23 which is the norm. There may be a straggler at 24 (extra year(s) for injury and attending graduate school) like a recent Rutgers player who missed a cpl years due to surgery but at this point they are men in college. To me this conversation is irrelevant as these are men playing versus the point of this thread which is always the argument of 13 year old freshman playing against 19 year old reclassed senior. An argument I am not commenting on.

It seems to me the biggest concern is prior to HS and the impact it has on club lacrosse. You cant possibly be up in arms about age in HS lacrosse.

Reclasses in HS are not an issue because everyone has physically matured by that time. However, it is a safety issue at the youth level and it looks like US lacrosse is finally trying to do something about it.

Its interesting that you all always believe the reclass is the bigger kid playing against smaller kids. My reclass and a bunch of the others we know were the smaller kids that hadn’t gone through puberty and were immature for their grade. Great part is, each kept playing on age until they reclassed in HS ahead of recruiting and I can assure you that you would have only noticed my player for his skill and small size. Some thought he was playing up. Of course he stayed the course, had to battle all the big bad meanies that went through puberty before him so when he joined a league and team full of reclasses he has shot to the top. Simple fact folks, youre twisting narratives to your like. The holdback is not always the biggest and oldest in the class. More often than not it is the smallest, youngest and most immature. In 6-8th grades how many kids were bigger and taller and you would say, what did he drive here. Just to find out the kid was an early bloomer and fell off by 9th grade when everyone caught up. Stop kidding yourselves, age based does not solve all. Kids develop on different time levels.
I close with 3 points.
1- reclassing before HS or playing down at club level really is sad. Do what you want but really?
2- LI has a lot of tee shirts but is no longer a hotbed for top D1 programs.
3- Lacrosse was grade based for so long because they wanted to grow the game and it is better to have kids who are in school together on the same team than have kids who are the same age but in different grades play together. Friends bring friends and more friends grows the game. If I can play with my buddy Tony who I sit next to all day Im going to be happier than playing with Mark who is in a different grade and has different friend group.

Pennsylvania Interscholastic Athletic Association.Voted 29-0 to remove a year of eligibility for anyone who repeats 8th grade! Let that spread from state to state!

Until they do, let’s just keep talking about it.

The article said there are many states considering the same rule . Reclass dads are now running scared .

It is definitely a start but most of the schools that have the kids that repeat 8th grade are not part of the PIAA. The Inter-Ac and Friends Leagues will not fall under this rule.

Sounds like there will be a day of reconning for the cheater parents. But the question remains, what are all of the holdback teams going to do without their holdbacks? They won’t be able to win a single game. Now what?

Some of them are 22

None of this pertains to private schools

Most reclasses revolve around private schools, not public

They will just reclass in 6th and 7th grade.

Let’s be honest. The only people saying it’s fine is parents who reclassed their kids.

Reclass is now most commonly done enrolling kids in kindergarten 1 year late or redoing kindergarten to let the boys "emotionally mature" as previously posted. It's been done for public, private or home school across the country and that includes Long Island. I noticed it when I took my son to a classmates' birthday turning 10, but my kid was still 8. Then it happened a dozen more times and I wasn't phased by it.

It’s absolutely hilarious you guys think this has anything to do with the reclass issue in the sport of lacrosse. Broaden your horizons just a bit please. The PIAA is one of the most corrupt and backward thinking organizations in the country. They pick and choose who they want to enforce these transfer penalty rulings on, there is literally no rhyme or reason to who they go after. Some high schools fly under the radar and some get hammered. I’m sure it’ll be the same with this new rule.The proposal came from a board member in District 1 which is basically Phila and the suburbs. I’m sure this started with someone who’s nephew lost their starting spot on one of the Philly Catholic League non boundary basketball schools to some holdback freshman phenom. The top Philly area lacrosse programs are all Interac private schools that push you to reclass. This won’t affect Philly lacrosse one bit.

Nonsense comments from reclass daddies saying that reclass and holdback kids don’t have an advantage in HS. What a joke. Not true and everyone knows it. You’re not fooling anyone.

What is the actual advantage in HS?

Older, more mature, puberty. Possibly bigger stronger. Played an extra year. Took opportunities away from younger kids for almost a decade already. Had extra coaching. I am pretty sure these are an advantage.

If reclass parents didn’t think their kids would get an advantage in HS, which is the only time that actually matters, then obviously they wouldn’t bother cheating and holding the kid back… now would they??? No body wants to be “that parent” that everyone talks about as being holdback cheaters. They have to live with that everyday, so obviously they are expecting a significant “advantage” in HS.

The HUGE majority of reclass kids don’t work out and those kids are scarred for life from the experience. Personally, if that were the only reason against the holdback scenario (which it’s obviously not) that would be enough for me to dismiss the idea. Putting your kids permanent mental health in jeopardy, FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE, is a high price to pay for that dream of yours for the Duke bumper sticker, which I can say with better than a 99.9% accuracy, is never going to happen.

The extent of the details in these lies is impressive. Even making it appear that you actually spent the time to research the topic, and then making up completely fake data, a bit obsessive for my tastes, but I have to hand it to you, George Santos, you out did yourself once again!

Unfortunately, you never had any actual credibility, as a morally compromised holdback parent on an anonymous website, so none of us are buying a word of it.

Can you tell us again how you won the volley ball championship for Baruch College, while on full scholarship, beating all the Ivy’s, and getting double knee replacement surgery in the process… even though the actual facts show you never ever attended a college? That’s a way better story!

Hmmm. Off the top of my head… the 2024 Legacy team went undefeated and won Naptown the last two years in a row. And Team 91 LI went undefeated and won the Crabfeast last year. The two biggest tourneys in MD. Both DOMINATED by Long Island teams. You got any other tournies I can fact check for you??

Yeah, we go to MD a lot. Between you and me, it’s our little joke here on the island, t-shirts are a lot easier to come by in MD, where competition is spotty. Not saying there isn’t any good competition, since there can de some decent out of state teams there. But inevitably there are a lot of MD teams that dilute the overall quality of the tourneys.

Thanks for all the tshirts guys!

In MD, bigger is better. But on LI, better is actually better. Kinda makes sense if you really think about it.

So you agree that holdback kids are better than on age. Thank goodness someone finally sees the advantages to holding back, not the usual silliness of “on age kids are better” glad to see an honest comment. Thanks

Does this work down at the sanitation lot? Just keeping saying stuff. Sound tougher and dumber but keep saying it with out facts. Those stats are from LI Lax Journal, inside lacrosse and team websites. Not very hard to export to excel, write a few macros and present the data. So again. You're a braggart with no facts. I also remember when Wolfpack lost at NLF and went home. Again selective in your outrage? Nothing worse than quitting and going home. Where are your actual facts? Legacy, good team. You sure you want to say no holdbacks?

To the MD trolls…

Did you watch the Duke Syracuse game last night? Great game, huh? Saw a lot of LI kids on both teams. Took a look at the Duke roster. Which most people would agree is the most talented roster in all D1. A total of 10 kids from the island on Duke. 5 of those are starters. Yup. Half the starters are LI kids. I know most of those kids personally and only one of them is a reclass. Didn’t bother looking at the Syracuse roster, but two of those starters on offense are freshman from the island. So despite George Santos irrational claims to the contrary, by all accounts, Long Island continues to dominate the D1 landscape. Funny thing, when I looked at the Duke roster, there were ONLY two MD names on the roster. Hmmm. So on the best roster in D1 lacrosse, there are only 2 Maryland boys. Looks like nothing changes from the club years to the college years. MD holdbacks are substandard at the club level and difficult to find at the D1 level. Really makes you think about the whole reclass thing, huh? Not sure you good ole boys thought that one through so good. Lol.

Hey holdback daddy. READ the comment. Nobody ever said holdbacks are “better”. It says they have an “advantage”.

Holdbacks need an advantage just to be able to compete. However, the advantage shrinks almost entirely by HS so that advantage is no longer enough of an advantage for most holdbacks to compete with on age kids.

Back to back Naptown Champion Legacy parent here. No holdbacks on this team, but lots of W’s when we go to Maryland. If we win your Naptown every year and Wolfpack wins your Crabfeast, what else is there? Good thing for your holdbacks that those are the only two tournies that Taz and Wolfpack do in Maryland. We leave the 2nd rate ones for your boys.

Fair, and those are actual facts about back to back for Legacy. How old is TE?
More facts
- Wolfpack lost and left a tournament. How they can call anyone out about something that is not illegal is hypocritical at best. Talk about teaching the wrong thing. But thats who they are. May be on age but showed the biggest lack of class ever by wolfpacking up and going home. Thats your legacy, diminishes all accomplishments and credibility. Lower than low.
- LI is no longer a hot bed of lacrosse. Those are real published numbers, aka facts.

Please explain why these are lies?

For a guy with a top tier full ride superstar you’re a pretty hostile “daddy”

Genuine question here to try and find out more about the process and hopefully this won't devolve into a reclassing argument. Can anyone shed a little more light on a post-grad (PG) year? I know that not all PG years are created equal but in my "research" it looks like it falls into 3 categories:

1) Some will PG because they have an "offer" in hand from a college but the college wishes them to PG for either roster reasons, COVID reasons, position is full reasons, or they want the athlete to improve grades or get bigger/stronger/faster so they roster them for a year at a PG school. They usually end up at a "top" program"

2) Some will PG but they don't have any arrangements set up with a college; they just hope to get noticed during the summer before their PG year / during the PG year. They usually do not go on to a "top" lax program but end up playing lax somewhere because by the time they PG, most of that class they have moved into has already been recruited at the top programs.

3) In between 1 and 2. No "offer" has been extended but the PG coach is usually well connected where they feel confident about getting a spot for the PG. Where they end up is hit or miss.

Is this generalization correct? I know there are no statistics but which one of those categories do PG's generally fall into? IS PG'ing worth it? Do you have to take SAT's again / get new letters of recs / etc? Curious about this process and hopefully some can shed some light on this.

From what I have seen that aligns. With in category 1 I think there is also a financial component in there where a program says we have spent it all but if you pg and come a year later we can do this or that.
Am curious and would ask the question of how it works with the service academies. I know some that have gone on to the Naval Academy in Annapolis had to go to Navy Prep in RI first for basically a pg year.

At my sons Founders league boarding school, all the PG’s coming into the boarding school have a spot already at an above average D1 school. Of those players, half were asked by the coach to take a PG year and half had already planned on taking a PG year. Tricky part is taking a PG year at the best fit boarding school, since there is a limit (I think it’s 3 PG’s) that can be on the game field at a time.

That’s a good point about the money. I think for the service academies they essentially fall into category 1?

Who pays for the PG year? Unless you're getting a good offer that's a big investment to play college lacrosse.

The parents pay for the boarding school or PG year. Most will get some kind of grant or financial aid to attend, unless their parents are in the 1%. Any private schooling is an investment no matter where you go, but I guess it’s up to each family to decide the level of financial commitment they are willing/able to give their child. I only know of our situation 100%, but I imagine most really good players at any boarding school are getting fairly generous grants to help to attend their school. Just like college, few pay sticker price. We are forever grateful to my sons school, best decision we could have made for him.

Perhaps you’re new to lacrosse, but it is the sport of the very wealthy. Look at the rosters of the best teams, primarily private school kids with a smattering of public. You can also look at the investment made by regular folks, 5-6k a year for 10 years for kiddie lacrosse. All that gets you on average about $12k in scholarship money.

And I think a school overall can only take so many PGe across all sports

I believe it is both a mix of parents footing the bill and scholarship. But with regards to investment, you might as well throw all of lacrosse out the window as there is nothing profitable about the sport between club, private coaching and club lacrosse as lacrosse is a terminal sport that doesn’t end in a career. So the reason many seek a PG year is to not play lacrosse in college but play lacrosse at a better school they would normally not get into. Anyone can play lacrosse in college with over 350 schools that offer lacrosse. But the PG investment is not in lacrosse but the college. Sadly it doesn’t always work out for everyone.