BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) 2020-2021 Women's Division I, II & III College Lacrosse Season

JMU is a very good program, they are consistently Top 20 and have been for many years. If they were in the ACC they would be middle to bottom… that is not a knock it is what it is. Oh, and BTW… JMU has won a National Championship which is more tha most ACC Teams including ND, Syracuse, Duke, Louisville and Virginia Tech can say.

Drexel lost an excellent coach. The new coach has had a pretty good mentor for the past 5 or 6 years I believe.
IMHO the new coach will do a great job. Drexel is a good school with a lot to offer and I hope they can build on the success they had last year s it is good for the sport.
I am not ready to put them as a perineal Top 20 but they are a good program, certainly one on the rise.

Excellent opportunity for any student athlete who wants to embrace it, Drexel would be a great fit for a lot of kids.

The point is that Big 10 was not off to a great start in 2020, even NU actually, so it can be inferred from partial 2020 and completed 2021 results that the big 10 is (was?-we'll see) a little down. Like BC, NU rebounded in 2021 and made it to the final four in spite of covid, which is being used as an excuse for certain teams not performing as well in 2021 when most programs were impacted by covid. Let's not forget, though, that NU was beat handily in the final four. Maryland still finished in the top 10, and Rutgers and Hopkins top 20. A previous post implied lesser teams ended up ranked because of big 10/ivies not playing "for all intents and purposes" but it's really just a couple of ivies missing that opened up spots for other teams to move into the rankings. Getting back to the original conversation, Drexel was ranked because they were good, not because of all the ivies and big 10 teams missing from the rankings.

Learn to comprehend…. Nobody used Covid as an excuse. Big 10 teams did not compete outside their own conference so there was no chance for out of conference games which impacted the rankings and RPI. The Ivy’s didn’t play at all (except for 2 games I believe) which also impacted the rankings as well RPI.
2020 was cut short, it’s not an excuse it’s a fact. You can not infer anything because you have no idea what would have happened if the season played out. BC was off to a bad start losing to UMASS and USC, by your logic we should infer that 2021 should have been a down year…
2021 rankings and final poll are what they are but there will always be an asterisk because it was not a normal season. Put an asterisk next to 2021 as well for the regular season .

Best thing about is it is connected to UPenn so the kids can learn by osmosis

Wow, how creative.... I'm guessing that you did not attend Penn. Troll.

Funny. Drexel a great school! As is Penn of course. University City in Philly is happening these days. Such a change from years ago.

it is. was just at Drexel this weekend with the daughter. the area is so much nicer than it used to be. up and coming program

Since 2015 JMU is 12-12 vs ACC teams, They beat VT 6x, UNC 2x, UVA 2x, BC 1x and Louisville 1x. JMU would fall right in the middle of the ACC.

“Learn to comprehend…. Nobody used Covid as an excuse. Big 10 teams did not compete outside their own conference so there was no chance for out of conference games which impacted the rankings and RPI. The Ivy’s didn’t play at all (except for 2 games I believe) which also impacted the rankings as well RPI.
2020 was cut short, it’s not an excuse it’s a fact. You can not infer anything because you have no idea what would have happened if the season played out. BC was off to a bad start losing to UMASS and USC, by your logic we should infer that 2021 should have been a down year…
2021 rankings and final poll are what they are but there will always be an asterisk because it was not a normal season. Put an asterisk next to 2021 as well for the regular season .”

Who cares about RPI and your asterisk idea will never happen because it’s ridiculous, there is no team that did not play that would have impacted the NCAA tournament

Didn’t JMU win a National Championship. That’s more than Notre Dame, Duke, Syracuse, Virginia Tech or Louisville can say. JMU consistently finish the season ranked in the top 20 I wouldn’t put them up there with UNC & BC but the have proven that they are an excellent program who can compete with the best.

It's a deal but only if people can also stop saying "they play in the ACC so they must be better" even though they haven't beaten UNC in over 5 years...or ever.

ACC ….. bla bla bla….

I don’t think anyone denies that The ACC is the deepest conference but let’s be honest, all ACC Programs are not equal. There are a number of programs that could compete in the ACC and do as well as most ACC teams do.

But they almost did. Doesn't that count?

Apparently the selection committee cares very much about RPI.... The asterisk will always be associated with both 2020 & 2021, they were not normal years.

There absolutely were teams not competing as "normal" that would have impacted the tournament. The entire make up of the tournament and seeding would have likely been very different if it were a normal season. It is what it is but to say that it was normal or that nothing would have been different and that nothing would have been impacted is simply ignorant.

We see that you are still having a difficult time comprehending. The season, rankings, RPI (which is used to select at large bids to the tournament) and tournament were all impacted by teams not competing (ivy’s) and other teams not playing their normal schedule. Everything was impacted.

--- "Who cares about RPI and your asterisk idea will never happen because it’s ridiculous, there is no team that did not play that would have impacted the NCAA tournament." ---

The above is an ignorant statement, obviously things would have been different and the tournament would have been impacted had the season had been normal.

Absolutely, it counts the same as when a non-ACC team does it. Why is applying the same standard to teams from every conference so difficult for some of you? This is not complicated. Pretty much every year the four best teams in the country are the ones that make it to the final four, even this past season with impact of covid - no excuses, no asterisks required.

And its not just the Ivies... good chance the Big 10 would have been exposed for being weaker than some people think, were they to play out of conference... will be interesting to see how they measure up this year...

No year is a normal year , there are always things that make each year unique be it weather , injuries , transfers . Do you really believe that the teams who made the final four last year were not the best 4 teams in the country even if it was a “ normal “ season . All you have to do is look at the rosters to know the best four teams made the final four so no the final outcome was not impacted by COVID and placing an asterisk is idiotic , BC is a national champ even if I detest to admit it . By the way to the ACC haters from last year the ACC guy from last season was proven correct they are the dominant division in women’s lacrosse .

Actually, it is much more likely that the Big 10 would have been acknowledged to be stronger overall last year had they played out of conference games. Very likely that an additional 2 Big 10 Teams would have been in the tournament and most certainly 2 Ivy’s with the possibility of a 3rd Ivy. It is very likely that 4 or 5 teams that made the tournament would have been bumped in a normal year. It is also very likely that many match ups would have been different. The entire tournament would have been different.

Apparently we have another person who struggles with reading comprehension. Nobody said anything about BC not being the national champ. The post said "Put an asterisk next to 2021 as well for the regular season.". It is not The ACC that is dominant, The Top 2 or 3 Teams in the ACC are always at the Top, right along with them are the Top 2 sometimes 3 out of the Big 10... Last year the edge went to The ACC.

Many teams can and do compete with ACC Teams, so much so that teams like Duke and Notre Dame avoid playing a competitive out of conference schedule.

Oh, please stop with the dominant conference… Maryland is 19 - 6 vs the ACC since 2015… that’s dominant.

In addition to Maryland, I’m sure Stony Brook, Northwestern, JMU, Penn State, Princeton, Penn, and a few others would be just as competitive as the majority of ACC teams any given year.

US News & World Report ranks Drexel as #103 for national universities, Penn is ranked #8....

I don’t recall anyone trying to compare Drexel to Penn or saying Drexel was a better school than Penn.

What is your point?

I am pretty sure at least 4 of those MD loses came to 1 team (UNC) so its not like the rest of the league was beating them. And if you want to see how a team like Maryland would do in the ACC, they were in there and won like 8 ACC Championships in a row.

Yet the vast majority would agree the final four teams end up being the same. And Drexel...the mention of them looking good is what triggered this whole debate...would still have made the tournament because the CAA usually gets an at large bid lately in addition to conference champion. Would a couple of other programs have been bumped if the ivies played in 2020? Yes. Maybe Big 10 would have gotten another team in, but they had 4 and 3-4 has been the norm since MD left the ACC.

OK, Pretty sure Drexel is on the radar, who else? Michigan, Rutgers and Arizona State along with Drexel as the top up and coming programs. Michigan has been tough the past few years, Rutgers had a break out year in 2021 and Arizona St is going to continue to improve. I would also expect the new coach at Villanova to turn things around.

The statement above was- "Drexel is a great school! As is Penn of course." Not sure what their requirements are for great, but I thought the rankings spoke for themselves, apparently not. I do not think the 8th ranked and 103rd ranked schools both fit in the same category of being great. Perhaps an example from a lacrosse perspective will help make the point. The 8th ranked team in the RPI after last season was Florida and the 103rd was Lafayette, would you consider both of them "great" lacrosse programs? Drexel is on the rise from a lacrosse perspective and I think they can be a top 20 team on a regular basis, academics are just fine but not great. Sorry that bothers you...

Any non traditional powers landing any top tier recruits?

Seems that way. No LI girls going to MD, NU, and Duke, Stanford, Cuse only have one a piece. Seems like the ‘23 class numbers are a little down for LI in general

Think that speaks to LI clubs focusing more on leagues and playdays and less on training. When you start to meet parents from other areas of the country you'll realize the focus is on training. You'll also hear about individul recruiting meetings(actual sit downs) to discuss a plan of action for recruiting. The top 15-20 LI kids will always go to strong programs but if the club landscape doesn't change you won't see much beyond that.

Stanford has a LI Top Guns recruit…

This year will be no different than most years for Long Island players. We will see 20 - 25 players commit to The best 15 or so college programs. It would be rare to see many more than that.

It will also be much harder for girls to go to the elite schools. Princeton, Penn, Stanford. They will have to have actual gh SAT grades, unlike the past couple years where they got in off of inflated COVID grades.

Why post such nonsense.

Are these individual meetings that the clubs provide to the players? Smart. LI needs to wisen up. The old way of doing things isn’t going to last.

Don’t understand how Stanford is even close to a traditional powerhouse, not even in the conversation. Don’t get me wrong I would give my right arm for any of my kids to attend, but the question was “traditional powers”

From what I was told from parents of 2 different clubs. Yes. It was a sit down in your house with the club director at no additional cost. Must be nice!

So, you really think kids didn't have an easier time getting into elite schools as recruited athletes last year and this year? The had inflated grades and no standardized test requirement. Back to reality next year!