BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) 2020-2021 Women's Division I, II & III College Lacrosse Season

Great for the players, great marketing and use of social media. Stony Brook has been one of the best programs in the country for the past 8-9 years. Will this be their best team? Time will tell. As for their schedule being "weak"... Do we even know what their schedule will be? Stony Brook has improved their schedule in recent years and I would not call it weak.

As for The Defense... Zone or Man, it really doesn't matter. In order to win in The Tournament a team must play excellent Team Defense. Nice to talk about the offense and the players who score goals but Championships are won by teams that are built from back to front starting with the goalie.

At the end of the day, SBU will again be very good this year.

Good luck to all.

Come on Bruh... you can be a hater but at least acknowledge some pretty decent recent results..

2019 lost in 2nd round to eventual champion Maryland, after beating the previous years champion JMU in round 1
2018 Lost in Quarter finals in O.T. to tournament runner-up B.C
2017 Lost Lost in Quarter finals to tournament champs Md by 1

Not a hater at all. IMHO... A "Tournament Run" would be getting to the Final Four or maybe even the Championship game.

Stony Brook is an excellent program, certainly one of the 15 Best Programs in the country (over the past 8-9 years). That said, They have been given way too much hype. Based on all the hype... Stony Brook has actually under achieved when it matters most in the NCAA Tournament.

Some are already starting with "This could be their best team ever".... They haven't played A single game (who knows if they will?).

Here is reality:

2013: # 10 at end of regular season. # 11 in the final Poll.. : They were 16 - 2 going into the tournament. - They Lost to Maryland in the round of 16.

2014: # 20 at end of regular season. # 20 in the final Poll.. : They were 16 - 3 going into the tournament. - They Lost to Syracuse in round of 16.

2015: # 6 at end of regular season. # 11 in the final Poll.. : They were 18 - 1 going into the tournament. - They Lost to Princeton in round of 16.

2016: # 7 at end of regular season. # 8 in the final Poll.. : They were 15 - 3 going into the tournament. - They Lost to Syracuse in round of 16.

2017: # 4 at end of regular season. # 4 in the final Poll.. : They were 18 - 1 going into the tournament. - They Lost to Maryland in round of 8.

2018: # 1 at end of regular season. # 5 in the final Poll.. : They were 19 - 0 going into the tournament. - They Lost to Boston College in round of 8.

2019: # 15 at end of regular season. # 12 in the final Poll.. : They were 15 - 4 going into the tournament. - They Lost to Maryland in the round of 16.

2020: ,,,,,,,,,,,

Ivies?? All lefty schools. But hey maybe Biden wins and of course covid will miraculously be gone.

Is there a school that isn’t a “Lefty School”?

In reality between the hype machine JS is and their weak schedule they will almost always be overrated. In season the fact that every year they beat a good team or 2 and everyone thinks they are better than they are failing to take into account some of these better teams they are playing usually have little time to devote to beating SB as they need to worry more about in conference games unlike SBU

Not sure the week schedule point is accurate the past few years. SBU does play a difficult conference schedule but it appears as though they do their best to play a competitive non-conference schedule (at least the past few years). 2018 they had USC, Stanford, Denver, Northwestern, Towson, Hopkins, Penn State.

2019 they had Denver, Towson, Stanford, Princeton, Florida,Hopkins, USC, Penn State, Colorado.

2920 they had Syracuse, Florida, Towson, Princeton, USC, Stanford, Colorado, Hopkins.

It is no a Northwestern, Maryland, Virginia schedule but SBU looks like the do their best to schedule tough out of conference games.

Ivies have zero investment in their student athletes. No athletic money and most SA are “paying the freight” to attend. Unfortunately for the SA attending the ivies the schools have no incentive to play. In fact...... they are saving money and adding to their multi billion dollar endowments. Shame

Ignorant statement.

Ivys absolutely will not play

Agreed doesn’t look likely

Lets just hope there is a spring.

"MIT became the latest NCAA Division III program to cancel its winter seasons because of the COVID-19 pandemic.

On Monday, MIT cancelled all winter varsity sports competition, which will impact men’s and women’s swimming and diving, men’s and women’s basketball, fencing, rifle, squash, and men’s and women’s indoor track and field.

In addition, the New England Women’s and Men’s Athletic Conference (NEWMAC) Presidents Council voted unanimously to suspend conference play and championships for the 2020-21 winter sports season due to the Covid-19 pandemic."[/quote]


Daughter plays at an ivy and was told this week they are not optimistic they will have an IVY season[/quote]


Ivies?? All lefty schools. But hey maybe Biden wins and of course covid will miraculously be gone.[/quote]

Is there a school that isn’t a “Lefty School”?[/quote]


Ivies have zero investment in their student athletes. No athletic money and most SA are “paying the freight” to attend. Unfortunately for the SA attending the ivies the schools have no incentive to play. In fact...... they are saving money and adding to their multi billion dollar endowments. Shame[/quote]

Ignorant statement.[/quote]


Tell that to the kids at Dartmouth where 5 sports were just cut....

https://www.thedartmouth.com/articl...ts-teams-and-closes-hanover-country-club

That was in July FYI. Didn't just happen.

just amplifying this statement;-

"Ivies have zero investment in their student athletes. No athletic money and most SA are “paying the freight” to attend. Unfortunately for the SA attending the ivies the schools have no incentive to play. In fact...... they are saving money and adding to their multi billion dollar endowments"

Something deeper than athletics.... The administration needs those "admissions slots" for a demographic that differs from that of those who participate in those sports. It is not about the money, the university will end up giveing more $$ in need based financial aid to the students who are admitted in place of the student athletes.

If money is truly the reason for cutting athletic teams Brown and Cornell could head in that direction. Apparently, Cornell had an operating deficit of $104,236,000 for 2019. Brown appears to have had a $25,362,000 deficit for 2019. Dartmouth had a surplus of $32,607.000 and they are cutting teams. The rest of the IVY's seem to be doing OK. The remaining 5 schools all had operating surpluses of $200,000,000 or more...

Penn - $519,173,000
Princeton - $405,536,000
Harvard - $297,900,000
Yale - $270,491,000
Columbia - $222,949,000


School Endowment Value as of 2019 Operational Surplus (Deficit) 2019


Brown University $4,200,000,000 ($25,362,000)
Columbia University $10,950,000,000 $222,949,000
Cornell University $7,300,000,000 ($104,236,000)
Dartmouth College $5,700,000,000 $32,607,000
Harvard University $40,900,000,000 $297,900,000
University of Pennsylvania $14,700,000,000 $519,173,000
Princeton University $26,100,000,000 $405,536,000
Yale University $30,300,000,000 $270,491,000

Sources: Department of Education, Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, University of Pennsylvania, Princeton University, Yale University

Great stats. But did you read the statement. Ivies do not have an investment in student athletes. Most SA pay to go to an ivy. The above statement may be true. Ivy schools might rather give aid to a need based slot than a SA. It’s no secret the SA’s are not backed by the schools as a whole.

BINGO

Where is your evidence to support your claim that "Ivy's do not have an investment in student athletes"? What schools are you comparing the Ivy's with? Not all Ivy's are the same, I would imagine some support their student athletes more than others. With the exception of The top BCS Football programs (Power 5) and Big Time Mens and Women's Basketball I bet the Ivy's are more competitive than most schools in most sports. Just my gut.

Does Stanford not back their Student Athletes? Stanford has been considered one of if not the best college athletic program for many years and they just cut 11 Varsity sports. BTW, Stanford has the third largest endowment of any University ($27,700,000 approx)

Sounds like you have an ax to grind for some reason.

have you seen the facilities at Yale? stadium is a dump

"[/quote]


have you seen the facilities at Yale? stadium is a dump[/quote]


I have been to Yale and the stadium is fine, certainly adequate for men’s and women’s lacrosse. They could fix the broken windows on the adjacent structure but the field and stadium are fine. It doesn’t seem to hinder their men’s team and if the administration is not supporting them the coach should ask for things to remain as they are. Not sure what the issue is on the women’s side.

The Stanford Cut was for non financial reasons

"the “optics” of “country-club
staples” such as squash and golf help explain why these sports got
slashed. “At a time when racial justice and diversity have become a
more open national conversation,” Korn wrote, “the sports being
eliminated are the ones that tend to draw overwhelmingly white,
often wealthy players.”


https://www.wsj.com/articles/with-b...staples-like-golf-and-tennis-11595170801

Stanford isn’t an ivy. Geez. Cmon. The thread was discussing the Ivy League schools.

Dartmouth cuts were to redirect admission slots to individuals from certain socioeconomic backgrounds which differ from the athletes from the teams being eliminated.

Still haven’t read anything that indicates “ivy’s do not support there athletes / teams”. Just some guys opinion. I would guess that some Ivy’s give more support than others but overall I think the guy has an issue for some reason. My guess would be sour grapes.

Not true... but if that is how you support your argument you lose credibility.

Most Ivy's have been supporting over 30 varsity sports for a long time. Schools like Texas, Alabama, University of Miami only offer about 16 varsity teams. Notre Dame and Northwestern offer 19 or 20 varsity sports. Ivy's have a very long and rich athletic tradition and in fact have supported more athletes than just about all schools. They absolutely invest in their student athletes.

---- "Stanford isn’t an ivy. Geez. Cmon. The thread was discussing the Ivy League schools". ----

Someone interjected by posting a link to an article about Dartmouth cutting 5 programs as proof that "The Ivy's do not invest in their athletes". It was pointed out that Stanford cut 11 programs and that Stanford has long been considered to have one of the very best athletic programs in the country. The reality is that the programs were cut for political reasons not financial reasons.
Stanford, as well as the Ivy's (although they are not all the same) have demonstrated for many years that the do invest and support their student athletes. The Ivy's(collectively) made a decision to limit how much they were going to compromise their academics in order to remain competitive with the "Big Time" Football Programs.

Please explain how they support???? Ivies could have 100 varsity sports because The ivy student athletes PAY to play. The schools mentioned above provide athletic $ to SA’s. This goes to the discussion earlier in thread that the ivies will cancel their season in a nano second. That is where there is no support for SA’s that they recruited. And don’t be surprised when the ivies follow the Stanford business model and cut the certain sports that promote white/wealthy participation.

Sorry but you are either ignorant or uninformed. Your above statement "This goes to the discussion earlier in thread that the ivies will cancel their season in a nano second" implies that other schools / conferences will most certainly have a season when in fact they all cancelled their seasons last spring. By your logic, the schools that you are talking about would have "played their season" because they are "invested" in their student athletes. Your statement: "The ivy student athletes PAY to play" is also ignorant as there are many Student Athletes at Ivy League Universities receiving significant financial aid. At many Ivy schools the number of athletes receiving financial aid is grater than The NCAA allotment for that given sport.

Your point regarding The Ivy's following the Stanford Business Model is probably not inaccurate as Dartmouth has already done it. The difference is that Most schools do not even offer some of the so called country club sports such as Squash, water polo, fencing, crew etc.... so there is no need to cut them. I would say Lacrosse is more vulnerable at schools that do not offer the country club sports.

BTW, for most schools and teams "Athletic Scholarships" are reductions in "cost of attendance" for the student athlete. No $$ actually are paid. That said, there are certain "Programs" that actually generate not only revenue but also a profit. Some of those Programs (Think Big Time Football) actually cut a check to the university for the total cost to attend for their 85 full scholarship players. Not only do these programs pay the university for "total cost to attend" they provide a financial stipend to the athletes.

The premise that Ivy League Schools do not support their student athletes is simply inaccurate.

Please let us know the long list of schools who support their athletic programs more than the Ivy's...

Oh, I don't know how they support the teams.... Maybe with... Coaching, Facilities i.e. stadiums, practice fields, locker rooms, weight rooms, training rooms, Medical staff including mental health professionals, access to sports psychologists, Trainers, Strength coaches, Alumi mentor programs, uniforms, travel expenses, Hotel rooms for away games, equipment, team gear (swag), cleats, turf shoes, training shoes, Alumni networking events etc...

As for the Ivy's following the Stanford Model they very well may do just that. As the previous post points out at least the Ivy's have the country club sports to cut. If schools are being pressured to free up admission slots so that certain individuals from particular demographics can be served Lacrosse could be on the chopping block at schools that do not have alternatives. Don't see that happening but you never know.

Provide data that supports your contention that more athletes at ivies receive financial support that is greater than the NCAA allotment.

You state:

“The schools mentioned above provide athletic $ to SA’s.”

Really, the school provides “athletic $” to the student athlete? No, they do not.

Do you think the school is paying money therefore they are “invested” in the athletes?

How do you think this works? Do you be believe that the team or the athletic department actually gives the student athlete $$$? Does the SA then pay the tuition, room and board with that “athletic money”?

Oh brother....

Are you serious??? That might be the most uninformed statement here. Have you heard of athletic scholarship. Please try to be somewhat informed. Appears maybe your SA has not received athletic scholarship. How about some simple math. Tuition/room/board/additionals-subtract merit(if qualify)+athletic scholarship or financial = out of pocket $ to attend. Your uninformed misleading statement that athletic Dept gives $ to SA is juvenile and dense

Sooo ....please enlighten us all as to why the ivies are so quick to cancel their sports seasons if they are supporting the student athletes that they recruited.

because the ivies are run by a bunch of liberal/socialist academia's who believe the entire country should be shut down and will listen Biden like he is God!

COVID

And all the other schools are run by such beacons of conservatism.... give it a rest. Just about every school is run by liberals. The only reason you even think of the Ivy’s is because they are the universities that “The Media” points to when they make a decision. Just like when John’s Hopkins Medical is cited.... the choose to cite “recognized” entities. Harvard and John’s Hopkins are world renowned. Not so much for many other schools.