BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) 2019-2020 Women's DI, II & III College Lacrosse Season

Well said. At the end of the day none of it really matters. However, I think is was nice to see someone do the analysis and show that much of what has been spewed on here over the years regarding UA is just sour grapes. The equation is simple.... Best Players = Best Programs. It's about the Jimmy's & Joe's not the X's & O's.

There has been a fair amount of bander back and forth on this topic. I hope this information can help separate the fact from the fiction.

The HS graduating class of 2015 had the traditional 44 Under Armour All-Americans plus an additional 14 players who were selected to the US U19 Team for a total of 58 Under Armour All-Americans.

Below is how Under Armour class 2015 faired in College:

21 were All-Americans
13 were All-Confereence..... All-ACC, All-Big 10, All-Ivy etc... that is in addition to the players named All-American as I am sure the AA's were All conference as well.
15 were major contributors to their teams...... Starting and or Playing in every game.
6 were reserve players who saw limited playing time.
2 may have stopped playing due to injury.
1 Transferred to a school that does not currently have a Division I program.

Looks like 49 of the 58 had outstanding college careers. The numbers tell a much different story than what has been told on here by some.

Spelling police.... fared in college, not faired.. : - ) .... Banter , not bander..... ; - )

Oh and by the way several from that class captained their teams.... several were considered for the Tewaaraton Award and if I am not mistaken two from that group won the Tewaaraton Award.

You guys are pathetic . Have not seen anyone say the senior UA players are not successful but you seem to feel it is said often . Your analysis is also misleading, an example being one of the Tewaaraton Award winners was neither a senior UA member nor did she make the actual U19 tournament team , she has been clearly the best player in her class for years but in my opinion did not make the U19 tournament team and was ranked by Inside lacrosse too low because of POLITICS. Had the U19 team taken her they actually would have won .So of those best 60 in the country a third made one of the 6 AA teams , that sounds about right . Or in other words 2/3 of the greatest superstars in high school did not turn out to be superstars in college but most had successful college careers .

There you go again.... below see actual facts , not your BS. She was named Under Armour All-American and she was ranked 18 by inside lacrosse. Stop with your nonsense .

Directly from UA Site and Program.......

"This year, 14 girls of the class of 2015 were named Under Armour All-Americans but will be unable to participate in the game due to prior commitments to the U.S. Women’s Under-19 National Team. This group is still considered Under Armour All-Americans in the event’s records and will be acknowledged in a half-time ceremony during All-America weekend. The players are as follows: Sam Apuzzo, Natalie Bulgier, Olivia “Ya” Ferrucci, Samantha Giacolone, Jackie Gilbert, Miranda Ibello, Erin Kelly, Nikki Ortega, Hannah Proctor, Claire Quinn, Lindsey Ronbeck, Mallory Weisse, Francesca Whitehurst & Caroline Zaffino."

2014 ILWomen Top 30 Rising Senior Rankings

1. Sydney Pirreca, M, Mount Sinai (N.Y.), Florida

2. Lindsey Ronbeck, A/M, Manhasset (N.Y.), Florida

3. Miranda Ibello, M, Maryvale (Md.), Johns Hopkins

4. Nicole Levy, A, East Islip (N.Y.), Syracuse

5. Nikki Ortega, A, Middle Country (N.Y.), Notre Dame

6. Jen Giles, M, Mt. Hebron (Md.), Maryland

7. Claire Quinn, M, St. Anthony’s (N.Y.), Northwestern

8. Charlotte Sofield, M, Bishop Ireton (Va.), North Carolina

9. Olivia Jenner, M, McDonogh (Md.), Duke

10. Samantha Giacolone, G, Eastport South Manor (N.Y.), Notre Dame

11. Olivia Ferrucci, M, Barron Collier (Fla.), North Carolina

12. Elizabeth George, M, McDonogh (Md.), Princeton

13. Kara Klages, M, John Carroll (Md.), North Carolina

14. Gianna Bowe, A, Clearview (N.J.), North Carolina

15. Francesca Whitehurst, M, Roland Park (Md.), Georgetown

16. Julia Braig, M/D, St. Paul’s (Md.), Maryland

17. Erin Kelly, D, Clarkstown South (N.Y.), North Carolina

18. Sam Apuzzo, M, West Babylon (N.Y.), Boston College

19. Shelby Mercer, D, Century (Md.), Maryland

20. Ella Bonafede, A, St. Anthony’s (N.Y.), Duke

21. Samantha Lynch, M, Huntington (N.Y.), Notre Dame

22. Meghan Doherty, D, Mt. Hebron (N.Y.), Maryland

23. Hannah Pridemore, M, Vero Beach (Fla.), Liberty

24. Kathryn Hallett, M, Manhasset (N.Y.), Princeton

25. Mary Rahal, Queensbury (N.Y.), Syracuse

26. Genesis Lucero, M, La Costa Canyon (Calif.), Stanford

27. Lauren Daly, G, Shoreham Wading-River (N.Y.), Boston College

28. Taylor Gebhardt, A, Baker (N.Y.), Georgetown

29. Mallory Weisse, G, Westfield (N.J.), Northwestern

30. Natalie Wallon, M, Charlotte Catholic (N.C.), Syracuse

BTW, Ranked 11 for incoming freshmen in 2015. Not exactly overlooked.


1. Sydney Pirreca | M | Mount Sinai (N.Y.) | Florida

A two-time state champion, Pirreca heads to Gainesville as one of the top players out of the high school game in recent years. Dynamic, speedy and incredibly athletic, her ability to put a team on her back at crucial moments and produce under pressure is seemingly unparalleled.

Mandee O’Leary on Pirreca: “She’s a seasoned player, and we feel she can make an impact for us as a freshman… She’s used to having the ball in her stick, making game-changing plays, and we’re looking forward to having her in a Florida uniform for the next four years.”

2. Lindsey Ronbeck | A | Manhasset (N.Y.) | Florida

3. Miranda Ibello | A/M | Maryvale (Md.) | Johns Hopkins

4. Francesca Whitehurst | M | Roland Park (Md.) | Georgetown

5. Olivia Ferrucci | M | Barron Collier (Fla.) | North Carolina

6. Nikki Ortega | A | Middle Country (N.Y.) | Notre Dame

7. Nicole Levy | A | East Islip (N.Y.) | Syracuse

8. Olivia Jenner | M | McDonogh (Md.) | Duke

9. Samantha Giacolone | G | Eastport-South Manor (N.Y.) | Notre Dame

10. Elizabeth George | M | McDonogh (Md.) | Princeton

11. Sam Apuzzo | M | West Babylon (N.Y.) | Boston College

12. Claire Quinn | M/D | St. Anthony’s (N.Y.) | Northwestern

13. Erin Kelly | D | Clarkstown South (N.Y.) | North Carolina

14. Charlotte Sofield | M | Bishop Ireton (Va.) | North Carolina

15. Jen Giles | M | Mt. Hebron (Md.) | Maryland

16. Caroline Steele | A | Severn (Md.) | Maryland

17. Jackie Gilbert | M | Amador Valley (Calif.) | USC

18. Gianna Bowe | A | Clearview (N.J.) | North Carolina

19. Alexa Radziewicz | D | Christian Brothers Academy (N.Y.) | Syracuse

20. Shelby Mercer | D | Century (Md.) | Maryland

21. Mallory Weisse | G | Westfield (N.J.) | Northwestern

22. Hannah Proctor | M/D | Radnor (Pa.) | Notre Dame

23. Kady Glynn | G | Summit (N.J.) | Loyola

24. Caroline Wakefield | M/D | Centreville (Va.) | North Carolina

25. Julia Braig | D | St. Paul’s School for Girls (Md.) | Maryland

26. Emily Resnick | M | Webster Thomas (N.Y.) | Syracuse

27. Megan Taylor | G | Glenelg (Md.) | Maryland

28. Kristen Adams | D | Garden City (N.Y.) | Penn

29. Angie Loynaz | A | Greenwich Academy (Conn.) | Virginia

30. Alexis Phillips | M | Archbishop Spalding (Md.) | Penn State

31. Natalie Bulgier | M/D | Souderton (Pa.) | Georgetown

32. Kimberly Harker | M | Mahopac (N.Y.) | Northwestern

33. Kara Klages | M | John Carroll (Md.) | North Carolina

34. Genesis Lucero | M | La Costa Canyon (Calif.) | Stanford

35. Brooke Troy | A | Westwood (Mass.) | Boston College

36. Meghan Doherty | D | Mt. Hebron (Md.) | Maryland

37. Caroline Zaffino | A | St. Paul’s (N.H.) | Boston College

38. Emily McBride | M | Manheim Township (Pa.) | Virginia

39. Kristen Yanchoris | D | Century (Md.) | Loyola

40. Kaitlin Luzik | D | Bishop Ireton (Va.) | Virginia

41. Keeley MacAfee | M | Notre Dame Academy (Mass.) | Harvard

42. Ivy Arlia | M | Thayer Academy (Mass.) | Northwestern

43. Abby Shields | M | Vero Beach (Fla.) | Furman

44. Greta Meyer | M | Germantown Friends (Pa.) | Stanford

45. Taylor Gebhardt | A | Baker (N.Y.) | Georgetown

46. Ellie Majure | A | St. Stephen’s & St. Agnes (Va.) | Duke

47. Samantha Lynch | M | Huntington (N.Y.) | Notre Dame

48. Kelsey Cummings | A | McDonogh (Md.) | Maryland

49. Lauren Daly | G | Shoreham-Wading River (N.Y.) | Boston College

50. Alexandra Argo | D | Bryn Mawr (Md.) |Princeton

At any given time there are most likely more than 180 players competing in the ranks of Division I Women's lacrosse who were named High School Under Armour All-Americans. The IWLCA only selects 48 Division I All-Americans so obviously not all can earn the recognition. Any player who earns All-Conference in The ACC, The Big 10, Ivy is an exceptional player and would be considered a superstar by most. Any player who starts / plays in every game at one of those top 10 - 20 programs is certainly an outstanding player even if not being recognized with an award. So more like 85% have great college careers. The large majority play for the most competitive programs, they do not disappear, they do not ride the bench, they do not quit they tend to do very well. If you are getting on the field in competitive games at a top tier program it is safe to say you are probably pretty darn good.

Perhaps a different way will help you understand how impactful UA players are...At a minimum, Girls Lax team at the D1 level will carry 30 players. Take last year’s 2019 D1 rosters and you construct a team that does not include any UA AA and I will do the same but including only UA AA and perhaps that visual will end this discussion.

Surprised that some schools have not been able to develop a more competitive women's program. Ohio State, Rutgers, Yale, Cornell even Brown . I am not saying that they are not solid programs I am surprised because the Mens programs at the schools listed seem to have had more success. Dartmouth on the other hand seems to be the other way. I assume both the mens and women's programs get the same support from the universities. Both Michigan teams appear to be moving in the right direction. Towson Men and women are up and down but both are very strong programs. Loyola men and women are legit. Penn State men had lagged behind the women but it looks like they have caught up. Navy women have done an incredible job in a short time and Army is on the rise. The usual suspects obviously have very strong mens and womens programs. I'm sure there are other but those programs stand out to me. I think they should be stronger.

Why did 6 of 8 seniors quit the team at Yale?

If you really think women's gets the same support as mens you obviously never had a daughter play D1, nobody really cares about womens lacrosse other than the families. BTW both my daughters played for top ten schools.

Not all UA AA are the same...You take out the top 22 in the UA AA game, I'll take #s 45-66 and i bet on it, it will be a game...All this about the coaches,UA, and IL always right...dont think so...the best programs bring in 8-12 kids, basically all on top lists...coaches hit 3 studs per class, they are set...34 kids on a team, 17 play...that means a lot of top kids never see the field...

Ok, basic math lesson, if all the top teams bring in 8-12 kids and all of them are on the UA team of generally 44 players and only 22 are the difference makers, how in the heck does that work? 2-3 top teams take every single one of the top 22 and none go elsewhere? At least present something that is intelligible.

More nonsense.

“Ok, basic math lesson, if all the top teams bring in 8-12 kids and all of them are on the UA team of generally 44 players and only 22 are the difference makers, how in the heck does that work? 2-3 top teams take every single one of the top 22 and none go elsewhere? At least present something that is intelligible.”

Not the guy who posted it but your reading comprehension is painful or just a desperate attempt to prove your little super stud will have the same accolades in college . I can guarantee you that your princess has had less accolades than mine but you people are ridiculous as I have seen many highly touted players never become that player they were expected to be . You are basing successful college careers on essentially these players senior years , I would argue 1 successful year of starting for their team does not equal a successful career for these top 50 players in the country coming out of high school . If you don’t think that the top teams have multiple UA AA riding the bench each season you are clueless .

In what way do the universities provide more support for the men's programs? Are you saying that the reason for OSU, Rutgers, Yale, Cornell, and Brown not being better is because the universities do not support the women's programs to the same extent as the men's programs?

Players recognized on the incoming freshman top 50 rankings list are deserving. UA senior game players are deserving. Those players and their parents should enjoy the moment, but stay humble and don't make more of it than it is. Players/parents not recognized shouldn't take it personally or react with jealousy and bitterness. Use it as motivation, but understand those accolades aren't required for a standout college career. There is not this huge pool of players with equal talent being left off these lists, but there are players who in college achieve as much or more than the incoming top players. There are some really good players from the IL 2015 incoming freshman watch list who clearly were top 50 in their class as college players, most notably Dempsey Arsenault. None of the 2019 Tewaaraton finalists were top 10 incoming freshman, and two weren't even ranked top 50.

And the small minded little man was jealous and bitter and four years later he is still hating. BTW, she was a 2nd team All-American last year. You should really get some help.

Very classy calling girls out personally.

Wow, best post yet and the Tewaaraton point is actually pretty amazing

When you’re the best player in the country, you would think 1st team AA at least once? Just proves the point that a great HS player is not always a great college player. But there is still one more year to ppw! Or maybe media gets fixated on certain darlings who are just pawns. Parents get stunk thinking their kid is the Bestest, then ultimately disappointed when Sally doesn’t live up to the hype. #stayhumble

Wow, still can't get over it. Jealousy really has a grip on you. What a sad sack you are.

Can you be more of a jaded, jealous POS. I don’t even know who you are talking about but clearly calling out a young woman on a public board shows your lack of class. Your poor children.

Calling out for what? Not being the best player in college lacrosse? We are talking about an adult woman, not a kid. So calm down and take the point like a grown man and stop pouting. In case you forgot what the point is. Here you go again: The highest ranked HS players do not always translate into the highest performing college players. There are plenty of examples of this.

I am not the person you are responding but I agree with the poster. You are a complete POS. Not sure where you are getting your "point" from because I do not believe anyone ever said that the highest ranked HS players "always" become the highest ranked college players. I have read and heard it stated many times that the majority of the highest ranked HS players will disapeer in college. I have read many times that for every highly ranked player that does well there is one that rides the bench. I have read that there are hundreds of players who are over looked but are just as deserving. By highly ranked I believe we are talking about the Top 30 - 40 Inside Lacrosse Young Gun Seniors, The 44 Under Armour Senior All-Americans and The Inside Lacrosse Top 50 Incoming Freshmen Rankings (For the most part it is all of the same players).

From what I can tell These 40 -50 players do pan out and they do very well. Most go to the top 10 -15 Programs. Those Programs tend to be the same every year.

Are there players who do not get recognized by UA or IL that end up doing very well in college? Yes there are. Are there some players who are recognized who do not live up to the hype? Yes. (But the majority do just fine)

Results and numbers do not lie. The college coaches from the best programs seem to Identify the same players as IL and UA. Those programs consistently out perform the programs that do not get the highly touted players. And by the way The programs that bring in the highest "number" of highly touted recruits consistently out perform the programs that bring in fewer highly touted recruits.

If the majority of the top 50 players didn't pan out the programs that tend to get most of them would not be doing very well.

If you are the same person you seem to have an obsession with a particular player and attack her every so often. The player was considered one of the Top 24 players in the country last season and you are still carrying on about her not living up to her HS Ranking. It's idiotic, it's been years it is insane.

Define success, most players would welcome her career. The Inside Lacrosse rankings are not my favorite, to pick a 1-100 ranking is going to have substantial variations. That said, I would expect a top 44 IL player (UA type team numbers) to be an All-American during their career. The player folks are trying to hold-up as an example of not having college success seems strange to me. Two time All-American with a year left. If her success continues, you really going to use a 3x All-American as an example of failing in college?

2018 third team All-American
2019 second team All-American
2020 ?

It’s the same POS who made up the AA Ivy League player. He’s a twisted little person.

The guy has issues. Whatever it is jealousy or whatever he clearly needs help. However, it is not realistic to expect every Inside Lacrosse Top 40 Player or Under Armour player to make All-American in college. The numbers do not allow for it. There are 48 Division I All-Americans each year. There are 44 Under Armour All Americans each year that means that there could be 176 former UA-AA's playing Division I each year plus some redshirts more likely 180 plus. Obviously they are not all going to be All-Americans in college.

Most do very well at the college level.

Certainly not a bad player, in fact she’s had an above average college career to be proud of. Just not in the conversation of the best players out there...sorry. There is a difference between good and great. She’s not in the same league as the Sam Apuzzo’s, Jamie Ortega, Lasota, Asrsnault , Kent, Giles. Why so mad? Let’s see what happens this year, wish all the hard working girls out there the best.

Your daughter is not an AA Ivy player, please go away with your made-up princess.

Thank you all knowing lacrosse expert. Thanks for clearing all of this up for the rest of us. We can all envision you whining and complaining back on that dreaded day in 2015 when your daughter was overlooked. We can hear you now "My daughter is just a deserving. The girl is not that good. She is overrated, she will disappear in college, my daughter scored more goals, the ranking is a joke, its all political, she will never see the field, she will ride the bench... bla bla bla...". Now here we are four years later and you are still bitter and jealous. Still spewing venom in a backhanded way trying to hide your ire and sound rational. Still carrying with you all of those sour grapes, still trying to diminish the player, her abilities, accomplishments and accolades with your moronic babble. The fact that you are still carrying on tells us all that we need to know about you.

Does anyone know if this is accurate and true? If true, I would guess the reason is that they think the coach is a crackpot.

#stayadouche

Yes it's true. The new coach put unrealistic requirements on the team in terms of practice times that were setup after the girls already had their schedules set.

was at BC watching lacrosse with my daughter, can some explain how the Duke transfer is already cleared to play this season? always thought transfers from the same conference had to sit out a year.

Not 100% sure... but I have been told that if the Duke coach does not release the player then the Duke coach can not use whatever scholarship $$ the players was receiving while at Duke. If the Duke coach releases the player then that money is freed up to give to another player.

It's fall ball

I believe she is either eligible to compete or she is not. Fall or spring it does not matter.

Plus I think if the Duke coach okays it then the player can play anyway.