BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2020-8th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016

Crabs will beat rising sons 10 out of 10 times...Great club vs mediocre club created because little Johnny couldn't make 91 or Express...There's always baseball!

Rising Sons has nothing to hide I guess. They do have one or two kids that look like they were reclassed and also a couple late Summer birthdays. It still looks like they average 1/2002 birth dates.

Rising Sons = mediocre team created by Dads whose sons couldn't make 91 or Express

Hold on a minute. AVERAGE birthday? Seriously? That is like saying "On average politicians don't lie".

I didn't see anyone make any claim about how good they are. Also, how do they have anything to do with LI lacrosse since they are in Philadelphia?

Since HOCO is sponsored by a municipal government - the ages of the players on each participating team will be publicly available.

I guess couldn't make NXT, HHH or Dukes

check your geography, Rising Sons are out of SE PA, don't think to many of their families are looking to travel north to LI for lax practice.

That average would be about 6 months older than most average birthdates for LI teams. 2020 birthdates start at 12/1 for the oldest kids. Any holdbacks are usually late Fall birthdates, which would still be 2020 in all other states.

You are mistaken. Not all information related to municipal govt business is public access. These birth dates would not fall under public access rules. It would be considered personal information of a minor.

Anything run/supervised/organized by a government is accessible by a Freedom of Information request.

You would never be successful in obtaining personal information of this type about another person (especially a minor) unless that person is an employee of the government or you prove they are deceased. You also have to meet a test of warranted when it comes to personal information and your curiosity is not considered warranted. Stop creating even more drama.

"Federal agencies are required to disclose any information requested under the FOIA unless it falls under one of nine exemptions which protect interests such as personal privacy, national security, and law enforcement."

I would imagine the only time you might be successful in obtaining this information is if there was a substantial injury as a result of an unsafe condition created - i.e. Crabs playing kids significantly older and bigger than the norm in the age group. You would need to prove that the County knew that there was unsafe conditions and did not perform their due diligence - you would probably not even need the DOBs to prove this as the county employees involved with the program are fully aware of the hold backs and the potential for injury and are choosing to turn their backs on the practice and also ignore what is considered the governing guidance on the practice from USLAX regardless of how ineffectual the organization is.

Thats funny. Our kids don't tryout for anyone else. They got what they need. This is the best program in any sport that we've belonged too. Not because of their success on competing and beating top programs but because of the level of coaching, the character of the kids and their philosophy of just getting better. We travel past all 3 of those programs to get to Sons.

Looking for a very skilled FOGO for WSYL born on or after 5/1/02 this team will be very very competitive with a skilled FOGO. Must live with in 100 of Hempstead NY (thats as the crow flies) for more info you can contact me at teamlightsout2016@gmail.com The only cost will be your travel

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Every middle school football field has 12 year olds playing with 14 year olds. The made up safety issue is a something that people use to have the high ground rather than just complaining their son's team lost or their son didn't make the team.
That doesn't mean that hold backs shouldn't play with the other kids their age or that the Crabs don't manipulate the system. It just means that neither insurance companies nor lawyers are going to solve the problem.

Its not really that simple. The younger, smaller kids usually play each other on the b line. The bigger, older, more skilled players, play a line. Same goes for other MS sports.

True, until some kid is tragically paralyzed. Without injury there is no cause for action.

Some poor kid is going to be sacrificial lamb for change in this sport. Makes me sick to think about it.

Thank you i will pass this along to some kids in our club

Youth and middle school football has weight limits which restrict the size delta risks (which are more when it is junior high with 14 year olds versus 12 year olds). Our son wanted to play MS football and could not as a 7th or 8th grader. He is on-age but was too big & heavy. The point you are attempting is way off. If an undersized 13 year old were seriously injured in contact with a much bigger repeat graded 15 year old, I have no doubt that would be a valid and credible legal claim. The tournament liability waivers parents sign won't be worth anything as a defense. Sadly, I do think it eventually happens.

Not all schools do that. I live in a big Nassau district and MS kids cannot play HS football or lax no matter what their size or weight is .

Maybe there are weight limits where you live but not everywhere. Middle schools where I live regularly have kids over 200 lbs. Some of them have been held back a year (not for athletics). So they can be up to 15 years old. Other kids will be around 100 lbs. My point isn't to justify hold backs but just to point out that greater size and age discrepancies exist in rougher sports without any legal issues.

Go watch concussion.....and you won't need to worry as your kid will be on the tennis.....pretty scary.

A Little dramatic don't you think.......mom

The main difference btwen the MS example and hold acme is that you knowingly put your son on the field knowing there are older boys playing. With holdbacks, in my view you do not assume that the boys are older. You assume that since they are all in same grade, they are all approximately the same age.

If your son is playing in the 2020 AA division of a tournament you have to be pretty naive and/or uninformed if you don't know that there will be some older kids. There are plenty of age based tournaments. Play those if you are worried about halfbacks.

Thanks Crabs dad whose kid had to play against younger kids to get noticed.

Well they already lost once

Sons will beat Crabs this Summer bank on it!

But the reality of it is my kids will get committed to a top lacrosse school and yours won't. Beat you on the field and beat you in life!

Keep dreaming Crab daddy. You are teaching your son the best way to succeed in life is to cheat, just like your holdback son is doing now. If, by chance, he gets accepted to a top lacrosse school, there is always the chance he won't be able to handle the pressure of playing against players now older or the same age as he is. Because playing for Crabs he was always playing younger kids so he could look like a stud. So when he falls flat on his face, he can thank you for letting him belong to the corrupt Crabs organization. You know, the club that has many, many holdbacks, almost twice the amount of any other competitive club.

If you teach your son to be a [lacrosse] like you, he won't be winning in life no matter what school he plays for.

That guy isn't a Crabs dad. His son plays on Madlax.

A little sexist, don't you think?

Very sad that this guy's focus in life is lacrosse and allowing his son to be manipulated just to get into a top LACROSSE school. Poor kid when he realizes he is just like everyone else and his skills are average if that when playing with kids his own age. Surprised any kid would agree to repeating a grade just to look like a lacrosse stud - he and everyone else knows it is only because of his age.

I completely agree with this post.

It truly amazes me that any parent or parents would hold a kid back for a sport, any sport. Sure I get some kids not being mature enough to start kindergarten or a kid who is struggling with the work in a particular grade repeating a grade or starting later. But to repeat a grade for something other than an academic reason is so completely unthinkable, foreign and totally bizarre to me I just can't understand it. Seriously, for a sport?

Your kid should be playing UP against older kids - where they learn to take a beating and fight through it. They should be bored by playing on grade level unless they find some really exceptional competition. That will help them win at the game called LIFE.

If you hold back your kid for a sport, lacrosse or otherwise, you're a loser. You're raising your kids to be a losers. One that will break in the face of real competition. It really doesn't matter that you're "cheating" or not because they will be beaten by someone hardened in the fires of real competition. It is a given, it will happen because you've made them weak on the inside. Makes me sad for your kids. Truly. But hey, someone has to run the cash registers at Walmart, put the shopping carts back at the supermarket and scrape the gum off the sidewalks.

A Crabs 2019 player just "committed" to the Air Force Academy. I'd consider letting my son repeat 8th grade if it was something he wanted to do and it would help him get into one of the academies. Somehow i don't think he would turn out with weaker character from the experience.

The reality is "losers" are people who spend their time complaining about what others are doing rather than focusing on making themselves better.

How old is he 17?

Kind of makes a mockery of the principles of the academies- a kid who manipulates the rules to beat up on younger kids as part of our armed forces....integrity, character, honor - you know the whole bit disregarded by these kids and their parents.

There are pros and cons for holding back. Just do your research before you do it. An informed decision is the best decision. Studies show the younger kids in a grade will have a higher IQ as an adult. The kids held back for the wrong reasons studies show will have a Lower IQ. I don't believe that IQ is a good measure of intelligence but it does make one wonder. There are too many studies that show many negatives for holding back for the wrong reasons like for sports. There are also psychological studies on the impact of a holdback who dominates in high school but can't dominate as a adult. Don't rely on a lacrosse coach to help make your decision. Talk to doctors, school officials and even a psychiatrist before you make such a life changing decision.